Do humans have a faith instinct?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by SamIam

.... If early groups of hunter/gatherers stuck together to fight wolves or big cats or human enemies from another tribe, they stood a much better chance of survival. This was altruism in action...

I see that as being mutually beneficial. Altruism is doing something that doesn't benefit you.

Originally Posted by Cloud

first, I think "faith" is different from religion, so no, I don't think faith is hardwired. What I do think is hardwired is curiosity. Humans are curious about the world around us and what makes it tick, and religion is one attempt to explain the unexplainable.

Exactly! There is little that we can't explain nowadays, mainly what we were before we were born, and what happens to us after we die.

Originally Posted by SamIam

A couple of more thoughts. Every living being fears its own death. If we weren't afraid to die practically no animals would populate the earth, so I wouldn't call faith in God narcissism on our part. It is more of a survival extinct. And even those who believe in God are not thrilled by dying, but I do think they get some comfort from the thought of heaven.

I think the bible was also an excellent guide for the survival of the species. Most of the rules in the old testament are helpful in keeping you alive, and making more humans.

Originally Posted by SamIam

... Many people are browbeat into a certain religous doctrine as children....

Browbeat? How about indoctrinated, brainwashed, habituated?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by xoB

Notice the polls show the most religious people in the US are in rural areas. People that who at least observe nature (other than on the weather channel), and many actually interact with nature. These people know how delicate, how puny, how insignificant, humans really are. These people know, they can use help from any quarter... except the government.

Originally Posted by Obama

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them....And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." -Barack Obama, April 6, 2008 remarks at fundraiser in San Francisco

So many deep explanations. I think it's much simpler... just different schools of thought. What's new is in the third generation of a highly mobile society, we have been moving to be with people who think like us. We have been segregating ourselves according to beliefs. It used to happen at the neighborhood level, now it happens at the urban vs rural or even state vs state level.

[jujuwwhite]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

So many deep explanations. I think it's much simpler... just different schools of thought. What's new is in the third generation of a highly mobile society, we have been moving to be with people who think like us. We have been segregating ourselves according to beliefs. It used to happen at the neighborhood level, now it happens at the urban vs rural or even state vs state level.

That is a very true statement. Even in my own family we learned early on as children not to bring up religion at family reunions since we had Baptist, Methodist, Jehovah Witnesses, Pentecostals, and even some open minded free thinkers all sitting around the same dinner table.

[jujuwwhite]

Originally Posted by DanaC

*grins* Clod's right. Join me in the gutter. Join us....join us

Brit = filthy

By the way...thanks for inviting me to the gutter, dana and clod! I'm putting on my gutter boots now! :p

[Clodfobble]

Boots? Boots?

Okay, but only if they have spike heels.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Notice the polls show the most religious people in the US are in rural areas. People that who at least observe nature (other than on the weather channel), and many actually interact with nature. These people know how delicate, how puny, how insignificant, humans really are. These people know, they can use help from any quarter... except the government.

Could it be that the religion you are thinking of is just tribalism? It is much easier to live the tribal us vs. them life in rural areas with people who look, think, and act just like us. I'm reading something right now by a guy trying to sift out from the mysticism a bare-bones no nonsense message about who Jesus was. He seems to be coming to the conclusion that the end of tribalism was his goal, which is pretty ironic as Christianity has played out.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

So many deep explanations. I think it's much simpler... just different schools of thought. What's new is in the third generation of a highly mobile society, we have been moving to be with people who think like us. We have been segregating ourselves according to beliefs. It used to happen at the neighborhood level, now it happens at the urban vs rural or even state vs state level.

That is pretty smart and interesting but don't more people move to find work than a better belief fit?

[skysidhe]

As I was driving today,I was wondering how people bring themselves out of a funk if it isn't faith in some positive outcome or by finding something beautiful? ( as I am inclined to do )

Don't we have a natural instinct to have faith in positive outcomes and striving always to reach the next level whether it is spiritually, physically,financially?

(edit) tailpost

That is pretty ironic Griff. What is the name of the book if you don't mind?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

Could it be that the religion you are thinking of is just tribalism? It is much easier to live the tribal us vs. them life in rural areas with people who look, think, and act just like us.

No, because my experience living in rural areas, was there was more than one flavor of religious people, and many more that never went to church but had their own relationship with God. I think people who only experience nature on TV, and live in secure (sub)urban cocoons, are more likely to feel smug in their superiority over the universe.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

As I was driving today,I was wondering how people bring themselves out of a funk if it isn't faith in some positive outcome or by finding something beautiful? ( as I am inclined to do )

Don't we have a natural instinct to have faith in positive outcomes and striving always to reach the next level whether it is spiritually, physically,financially?

(edit) tailpost

That is pretty ironic Griff. What is the name of the book if you don't mind?

Jesus for the Non-Religious by a one time Episcopalian bishop whose name escapes me.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, because my experience living in rural areas, was there was more than one flavor of religious people, and many more that never went to church but had their own relationship with God. I think people who only experience nature on TV, and live in secure (sub)urban cocoons, are more likely to feel smug in their superiority over the universe.

We have three flavors of Christianity here. You make a good point about urban vs rural as far as realism about the natural world goes, but not so much as a proof of God's existence. Atheists experience wonder as well. I'll think on it more while I haul water to the goats and listen to the wind drifting snow into my driveway.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No, not proof of God's existence by a long shot. It's just a reminder that "you" are not the be-all, end-all. I'm not trying to justify these people's faith, that's not for me to judge. Just saying, putting "yourself" in perspective compared to the world around you, could heighten the desire to search for a higher power, which would explain more faith in rural areas.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

to feel smug in their superiority over the universe.

Huh?

The Abrahamaic religions put humans (made in God's image), pretty much at the top of the heap with just one being (and possibly angels) superior. Humanity is the acme of Creation.

A nonreligious viewpoint can only say we're cleverer than anything else we've met, and we're unlikely to meet anything else, due to the staggering size of the universe. Smarter than anything else on this speck of dust is hardly superiority over the universe.

[Griff]

Heh, he said acme... beep beep zip bang!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Maybe universe was a poor choice of words, but people talking about colonizing other specks of dust, impress me as feeling we are the masters of everything.

You seem to think that everyone that becomes a member of a particular sect, subscribes automatically to all the statements of the leaders of that sect. My experience is most people have a much more casual relationship with the church. Sure, there are rabid followers that expound chapter & verse, and wackos like Fred Phelps who are completely out of left field, but the majority are just doing their own thing.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You seem to think that everyone that becomes a member of a particular sect, subscribes automatically to all the statements of the leaders of that sect.

Where did that come from?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Where did that come from?

From here;

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Huh?
The Abrahamaic religions put humans (made in God's image), pretty much at the top of the heap with just one being (and possibly angels) superior. Humanity is the acme of Creation.