tazer crazy .....taze 'em if you got 'em!

[lumberjim]

PTSD = Pizza and Taco Stress disorder. you get it from having gas and heartburn at the same time. it really hurts ....a lot

[Sundae]

My sister went to a school that was considered a sink school 5 years prior to her attending. A new Head did manage to turn the school around, with the help of a lot of money thrown at it by the local authority. But there were still days when she came home from school and complained that in certain lessons she felt she had learned nothing thanks to disruptive influences in the class. When most of the major troublemakers were moved into a separate class for "disadvantaged pupils" (it was the only failing school in a Tory ward - a blot on the landscape so in those days it got additional help) the class moved on enormously. And she ran into one of these troublemakers years later and he had a good job in IT - the school didn't give up on them, they just educated them differently.

NOT saying those pupils were in any way tase-worthy, but the point is a minority of students were causing problems in a reasonably affluent area in an up-and-coming school. And with teachers who had been through far tougher times. Lord knows how hard it is to teach in classes where the worst you can get isn't being spat on or sworn at but actually physically assaulted.

I don't think any teacher should use physical means as a threat to subdue pupils - in that you're right Cicero. But as a last ditch attempt to protect themselves against physical assault, I would not have a problem with a teacher who dropped a teen with a taser. Crikey me, there will be at least one hostile witness in the class, if not more who will scream blue murder if it is used incorrectly.

[ZenGum]

Tasers work on deer!

See http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=6709

Fair use of tasers here I reckon, although the release strategy lacked a little forethought. Gee, they might have called an animal center or a vet and got his wounds checked, too.

[Elspode]

I say taze 'em all and let General Electric sort 'em out.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

My sister went to a school that was considered a sink school 5 years prior to her attending. A new Head did manage to turn the school around, with the help of a lot of money thrown at it by the local authority. But there were still days when she came home from school and complained that in certain lessons she felt she had learned nothing thanks to disruptive influences in the class. When most of the major troublemakers were moved into a separate class for "disadvantaged pupils" (it was the only failing school in a Tory ward - a blot on the landscape so in those days it got additional help) the class moved on enormously. And she ran into one of these troublemakers years later and he had a good job in IT - the school didn't give up on them, they just educated them differently.

NOT saying those pupils were in any way tase-worthy, but the point is a minority of students were causing problems in a reasonably affluent area in an up-and-coming school. And with teachers who had been through far tougher times. Lord knows how hard it is to teach in classes where the worst you can get isn't being spat on or sworn at but actually physically assaulted.

I don't think any teacher should use physical means as a threat to subdue pupils - in that you're right Cicero. But as a last ditch attempt to protect themselves against physical assault, I would not have a problem with a teacher who dropped a teen with a taser. Crikey me, there will be at least one hostile witness in the class, if not more who will scream blue murder if it is used incorrectly.

I would like to say once again...that I think that anyone who feels that threatened at any time by their students or others hopefully will choose to arm themselves . I think this is an individual choice and should not be mandated by schools. I don't think it should be standard operating procedure. I am in no way saying that you do not have a right to defend yourself in these situations. I just think that school security has become paranoid and over-bearing like in the example I gave of a local honor roll student. In fact, it was in the same state as Columbine and everyone is overly-paranoid now. Another friends daughter was found with a nail file and had it taken from her as well. The very same public school. I don't think everyone should be treated like a delinquent criminal. That school was full of good kids and security took it upon themselves to police and search on many occasions that were uncalled for. I spent a lot of time talking with these students because I frequented a coffee shop near the high school and they kind of looked up to me and at times falsely dubbed me as a peer. (they thought I was "cool") They were consistenly searched and had things like nail files and toenail clippers taken from them etc. etc.


I am trying to respond to Dana as well here.......
PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and I think the people of the united states are acting out of it after all of the school shootings, 9-11, and all the other recent traumas. Not only are we addressing real fears we are addressing imagined fears, and fears we have no control over, which does not bode well for out educational system.

I was reading Epictetus yesterday and realized that this 2000 something year old philosopher was warning against this type of behavior. There are real things to fear, and imagined fears, and it is up to everyone individually to decide what is a real fear and what is not. Society and civilization plummets into a burning pile of rubble quite quickly once false fear is the prominent feature of any nation is what I think he was trying to say. I think what has happened here in the United States in regard to how we treat our school-age and college students is but a symptom of much greater problem. We are teaching them to be very afraid of authority, police, and our government. Moo!

Get in line sheeple!

Some kids in public schools are bullying teachers who are trying to help. They don't need to be in the damned classroom. They infect the other students like a deadly virus, and if you are too busy protecting yourself against every student, and ignore the good ones...Aren't you you advertising your commitment to the problem? Yes Dana, this occurs.

I am not trying to be unfair to teachers. They are very commendable for doing their job under such stress at such low wages. I think they are awesome! For those that read every classroom in suburbia and in rural districts as a potential threat to their survival....well.....I'd like to ask that they give up the student harassment and seek alternative measures. Fear-mongering is no way to teach. Have some dignity. If you would like to arm yourself for a just in case scenario (with your weapon of choice)....go ahead! Please!! But I do not in any way think it behoves us to advertise our fear and contempt with mandated weapons.

I value your opinions, as both you and Dana are clever. And I think we agree on tons of issues, and hopefully I am being clear enough....And I am not trying to be inflammatory. I just think that there are some good kids out there being treated unfairly, and hell even some "bad" kids that aren't that bad that aren't a real threat, they just look funny. I'm on their side. And some of them know it. It isn't hard to project that in a classroom.

[binky]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Hi Zippy,
We're saying something similar, but we have a big difference about what is "appropriate" force.
For me it's about using the minimum force that is necessary to get the job done. To illustrate, Rodney King was captured without shooting. This makes it clear that it was NOT NECESSARY to shoot him. For you to say, even with the benefit of hindsight, that you would have shot him ... wow. I would consider that willful murder.

Next question:
Should high-school teachers be allowed to carry (or issued with) tasers? High school seniors are often bigger, stronger and meaner than the teacher. If park rangers get them, how about teachers? Might stop a school shooting, too.

Absolutely IMO. one of my girls goes to middle school and some of those kids are scary enough

[DanaC]

I value your opinions, as both you and Dana are clever. And I think we agree on tons of issues, and hopefully I am being clear enough....And I am not trying to be inflammatory. I just think that there are some good kids out there being treated unfairly, and hell even some "bad" kids that aren't that bad that aren't a real threat, they just look funny. I'm on their side. And some of them know it. It isn't hard to project that in a classroom.

I agree with much of that. Whether it's hard to project that in a classroom is, however, dependant upon the particular circumstances and cohort within that class.

Just to clarify my position Cic: I do not believe that children should be treated like criminals, I completely agree that such tactics just serve to increase the sense of dislocation between young people and authority. I also know that there are poor (or demoralised) teachers who take the 'easy' route of blaming their pupils for a lack of discipline and enthusiasm that should rest more firmly on the teachers', or principles' heads.

In the school I referred to earlier, teachers threatened to strike and refused to deal with children they described as "unteachable". I do not believe such a child exists. Problems are more complicated than just 'bad' kids. But they are also more complicated than 'poor' teachers. Often what is required is a higher level of support for those teachers (i.e Classroom assistants and a consistent approach to rules and discipline throughout the school community) and that is something that principles and governing bodies need to take more seriously.

[Cicero]

Since I myself have pointed out some issues from my limited perspective I will also offer a solution.....

I like Dana's idea about classroom assistants, in tandem/or in lieu of them, I would like to see the student to teacher ratio decrease. That may help if teachers and students are feeling a little overwhelmed. Lets throw more money at education! (In America) I'm tired of paying for all this crap that I don't like.


They just cut electives from some santa fe public schools. (Just heard about it, and didn't get any details) They were too broke....? I want to spend my money and taxes on that. Hire more teachers, and get more computers, leave the arts and wood-shop classes alone...that's some people's only way to survive the mind-numbing days in high school. And actually pass.

Don't taze education bro.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I also know that there are poor (or demoralised) teachers who take the 'easy' route of blaming their pupils for a lack of discipline and enthusiasm that should rest more firmly on the teachers', or principles' heads.

And the parents.