A Belief Question - Page 3

Flint · 11-09-2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

The point that is being missed in these rather rational notions is this: True Believers *need* their God to be a conscious entity, one which apparently thinks like a human being, but has awesome super powers - an entity above and apart from The All.

I don't miss that point.

Flint · 11-09-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

There's no point in worshiping something that isn't conscious.

To you. That you know of.

Happy Monkey · 11-09-2006, 03:33 PM

To someone that worships. They are hoping or expecting that their prayer is heard.

Flint · 11-09-2006, 03:35 PM

That is true only sometimes. Maybe even most of the time, but not %100 of the time.

Happy Monkey · 11-09-2006, 03:37 PM

The other times, too.

Flint · 11-09-2006, 03:38 PM

Many people have worshipped non-anthropomorphic things, with none of the specific agenda you describe.

Happy Monkey · 11-09-2006, 03:45 PM

I don't think so, but I'm all ears.

Flint · 11-09-2006, 04:06 PM

There are people who worship nature, not as a conscious entity, and not to achieve a desired outcome by communicating with, exerting influence over, or receiving special favors from it. You may not agree with it, or understand it, or be aware of it, but there they are. They do exist.

Happy Monkey · 11-09-2006, 04:17 PM

I never said they expect or hope anything in return, but if they worship, they expect or hope to be heard. Otherwise it's just therapy.

Flint · 11-09-2006, 04:22 PM

This boils down to whether the definition of the word "worship" necessarily indicates a communicative act as you've described.
This is clearly your definition, but not the same one that everybody uses. From your persepctive, this is all merely speculation.

DanaC · 11-09-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

This boils down to whether the definition of the word "worship" necessarily indicates a communicative act as you've described

Y'know, you really can deconstruct language to the point where none of it means anything, or all of it means everything.

Elspode · 11-09-2006, 05:02 PM

Prayer is the conscious focus of energy, based on whatever imagery to which you are attuned. Thus, when one worships, be it Jehovah, rocks, Allah or Britney Spears, that individual is having a personal, energetic interaction with The Universe. IMHO, it is immaterial *what or who* the focus of it is, because it is the individual who is doing all the work.

So, from my point of view (which I grant is not shared by most Western religions), there *is* a reason to worship something which is not necessarily anthropomorphic, or conscious in the classical, human-centric sense.

Happy Monkey · 11-09-2006, 05:05 PM

The definition of "worship" that doesn't involve communication is the figurative one, like worshipping the almighty dollar.

Happy Monkey · 11-09-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

So, from my point of view (which I grant is not shared by most Western religions), there *is* a reason to worship something which is not necessarily anthropomorphic, or conscious in the classical, human-centric sense.

But in some other sense.

Flint · 11-09-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

But in some other sense.

You only disagree with what is in the sense that you mean, but you've been insisting that everything is in this sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Y'know, you really can deconstruct language to the point where none of it means anything, or all of it means everything.

And you also can't project your definitions on other people and insist that they are using them when they clearly aren't.

11-09-2006, 03:33 PM	#33
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	To someone that worships. They are hoping or expecting that their prayer is heard. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

11-09-2006, 03:35 PM	#34
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	That is true only sometimes. Maybe even most of the time, but not %100 of the time. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

11-09-2006, 03:37 PM	#35
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	The other times, too. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

11-09-2006, 03:38 PM	#36
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Many people have worshipped non-anthropomorphic things, with none of the specific agenda you describe. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

11-09-2006, 03:45 PM	#37
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I don't think so, but I'm all ears. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

11-09-2006, 04:06 PM	#38
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	There are people who worship nature, not as a conscious entity, and not to achieve a desired outcome by communicating with, exerting influence over, or receiving special favors from it. You may not agree with it, or understand it, or be aware of it, but there they are. They do exist. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

11-09-2006, 04:17 PM	#39
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I never said they expect or hope anything in return, but if they worship, they expect or hope to be heard. Otherwise it's just therapy. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

11-09-2006, 04:22 PM	#40
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	This boils down to whether the definition of the word "worship" necessarily indicates a communicative act as you've described. This is clearly your definition, but not the same one that everybody uses. From your persepctive, this is all merely speculation. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio** Last edited by Flint; 11-09-2006 at 04:27 PM.

11-09-2006, 05:02 PM	#42
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Prayer is the conscious focus of energy, based on whatever imagery to which you are attuned. Thus, when one worships, be it Jehovah, rocks, Allah or Britney Spears, that individual is having a personal, energetic interaction with The Universe. IMHO, it is immaterial what or who the focus of it is, because it is the individual who is doing all the work. So, from my point of view (which I grant is not shared by most Western religions), there is a reason to worship something which is not necessarily anthropomorphic, or conscious in the classical, human-centric sense. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-09-2006, 05:05 PM	#43
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	The definition of "worship" that doesn't involve communication is the figurative one, like worshipping the almighty dollar. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)