Biden: when Obama is faced with a crisis in six months you gotta support him

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by DanaC

To me, experience doesn't count for much if you have displayed poor judgement through it. . . More importantly, perhaps, his response when faced with an actual, bona fide crisis in the shape of last month's market meltdown, he showed little leadership, floundered for answers which, when they came, were disjointed, incoherent and unconvincing.

And the same could justly be said of Obama. Really, nobody had a complete handle on the situation. Nor do the candidates have the actual responsibility yet. It would be unrealistic to the point of absurdity to look for any "make it all better" from either one in any case.

Just as I do not blame the Bush Administration for the economy's troubles, I don't give credit to the Clinton Administration for the boom times -- boom and bust happens independently of who's in power in America as far as I can see.

Why exactly is it you disapprove of being "bellicose" towards undemocracy and undemocracies again? Was it fascist sympathies? Myopia? Lack of faith in the idea of limited government? There really aren't any good reasons to be against crushing fascism, you know. Or you really should.

The above is why I don't think you're all that bright. I wish you could be, though.

[DanaC]

Why exactly is it you disapprove of being "bellicose" towards undemocracy and undemocracies again? Was it fascist sympathies? Myopia? Lack of faith in the idea of limited government? There really aren't any good reasons to be against crushing fascism, you know. Or you really should.

Yes. I have fascist sympathies. I am in fact so shortsighted as to be myopic and have lost all faith in mixed government.

The above is why I don't think you're all that bright. I wish you could be, though.

Aww. That's so sweet. You really do wish that don't you?

Clearly, then, I am not very bright. Certainly next to you I look like an intellectual lightweight, I realise this. I can only suggest you continue to utilise your vast well of patience and understanding when dealing with the slightly stupid.

[classicman]

:snort: [repeatedly attempts to clear throat of burning hot coffee from lungs]

[DanaC]

*winces* sorry classic...hate when that happens :P

[classicman]

Did I mention the oatmeal in my nasal cavity?

[DanaC]

No, you didn't. I can't imagine that's pleasant?

[classicman]

I lol'd so hard - that was one of your best posts evah!

[classicman]

Just wondering aloud (or in type) if the Israeli/Palestinian situation will be Obama's first test...

[Griff]

[only]The've tested every post-Republic Emperor and President so far...[/half-kidding]

[Undertoad]

The Israel / Palestine situation is a weekly pop quiz for a President, but not really the sort of test they were talking about. Think it'd be more like:

Russia puts 20,000 troops on the Georgian border. What're ya gonna do about it?

Iran completes a huge and successful nuclear test in an underground location previously not thought to be a nuclear site, and announces that Israel is now on notice. Next move?

Israel destroys a nuclear facility in Iran... flying over Iraqi airspace to do so, with such short notice that there is no time for any diplomacy.

Venezuela announces end of all oil shipments to US.

Syria surprise-invades Golan Heights, installs missiles that can hit Tel Aviv.

Terrorists detonate small dirty bomb same day in Rome and London. Via audio tape to al Jazeera, an announcement is made that locations in NYC, DC, LA and in a surprise move, Billings Montana, are scheduled for next week.

China intercepts a US spy plane near its territory and holds its crew without negotiations.

A smaller country bombs the US Embassy to smithereens.

[classicman]

I hear ya UT - I was thinking along the lines of Israel getting a lot more aggressive with the Palestinians. As in if this situation escalates....

[TheMercenary]

I agree. I think it is going to get worse before it gets better. Not to mention there is a ship on the way to Gaza from Iran. Should be interesting.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's just the provocation Israel needs to bomb Iran's nukes.

[TheMercenary]

I thought about that. There may be a larger issue here. To draw Iran into some kind of response that Israel can then show the world directly ties Iran to violence by Hamas. For example if they board that ship and find weapons that could be all they need.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Yes. I have fascist sympathies. I am in fact so shortsighted as to be myopic and have lost all faith in mixed government.

Aww. That's so sweet. You really do wish that don't you?

Clearly, then, I am not very bright. Certainly next to you I look like an intellectual lightweight, I realise this. I can only suggest you continue to utilise your vast well of patience and understanding when dealing with the slightly stupid.

Whether you want to convey sarcasm or not -- I know you do -- now you are forming the concept. Let it germinate and grow -- you're not making barley malt, don't kill it. And as it grows, you grow away from collectivist folly, the wellspring of fascist sympathies. Don't think "fascist" is being applied unfairly, Dana: remember that every fascist who ever lived and wrote described himself as a socialist at one point or another, and outsiders analyzing the collectivist and totalitarian movements have remarked on fascism going so far rightwards as to meet socialism coming around the other way. At this point, you couldn't find a difference to have to live on if you tried.

Which I hope goes to illustrate why I have absolutely no use for socialism nor faith in socialist policies. This is an attitude that is widespread on this continent, though not often as explicitly stated as I make it.

Von Kuehnelt-Leddihn made clear in Leftism Revisited that one cannot fight fascism in alliance with socialism, or fight socialism in alliance with fascism, and still remain on the side of right. Or for that matter remain fully human -- undemocracy selects for the inhuman and the inhumane. Both fascism and socialism are to be fought as facets of the same evil, and both to be brought to annihilation for that reason, to be replaced with some liberal form of democracy -- majority rule with extensive minority rights protection, be it a direct democracy wired through modern or futuristic communications, or on a republican model, which experience favors as conducive to both prosperity and stability. The workings of power should not be either too swift or too efficient. Power is best rendered accountable when limited in its scope and in its duration. Why is Zimbabwe so effed up? See if there is any limit in power's scope or duration for Robert Mugabe.

I observe that you really don't have any reasons for disapproving of being bellicose towards the less than democracies -- or at least no reasons that find words. At any rate, you choose not to address the point, and as usual the point not addressed is really the central one. I get that a lot. It's tiresome.

Laugh as much as you like, but you'll be acting as an adult if you're thinking even more than you're laughing. I am not going to fear your hoots, now or ever, so do put that idea out of your mind.