What it means to be an American

[Flint]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I don't think that subject matter was given to be funny.

You're saying I didn't mean it as a joke when I said it? Even after I said I was just joking, you're saying "no, you weren't joking, because I'm a mind reader" ???

[xoxoxoBruce]

Nice try Flint, but you'll never buy a new car again at less than 17% interest.

Originally Posted by Kitsune

I moved your comment here, because I think it is a really important note and I don't want to clutter up this BBQs/SUV/apple pie thread with anymore ranting about Big Brother.

Is that what you really think "Being an American" is about?

Originally Posted by MaggieL

I'm more worried about liberals trying to take stuff away from me ("..as representatives of The Common Good", as Hilary said); they spend all their time talking about it. Take a look at that Google sketch-up thread...the very first words out of tw's mouth when he found out I was a ham was about whether my neighbors would prevent me from erecting antennas.

He asked that because it's an extremely common problem, as you damn well know. If you think it's a problem with "liberals" you are sadly naive.

I don't think Bush wants my radios. He seems to understand they're more valuable to him (and everybody else) in my hands.

More likely he doesn't understand shit, but one of these days some bureaucrat will ponder it, while trying to figure out a way to advance his/her career.

Get real indeed. Do you advocate gun confiscation too?

Nice try but the fact remains, you don't need a license to use that radio, so confiscation is the only solution for the government. Maybe sending everyone that has demonstrated a working knowledge to Gitmo, too.

And even more in digital data. HF radio used to have significance in international intelligence; it doesn't anymore. For one thing, it requires somebody who knows what they're doing on both ends to use it.

So terrorists that learn to fly a 767 are too dumb to operate a ham radio?


No, I don't think they'll be going after ham radios but I'm pointing out it wouldn't affect me a bit, while I'm sure you would be livid.
The same way if they said cars couldn't have more than 200hp, the majority wouldn't care but I'd be very pissed off.
The point is, that taking away any freedoms from anyone affects us all.

[slang]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

....We don't see 'Made In America' labels anymore.

= on those items we do see a "Made in America" label, we wonder if there is a city in China that is named "America" and may even MapQuest or Google it to check.

= we most likely do not object to strangers taking photos of our cars or nice toys but get combative if that said stranger even suggests that we appear in the photos with that cool thing.

( Outside the US = we actively encourage [foreign] strangers to take photos of our vintage rust free cars or goofy/outdated toys and get combative if that said stranger even suggests that we NOT appear in the photos with that cool thing)

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by slang

= on those items we do see a "Made in America" label, we wonder if there is a city in China that is named "America" and may even MapQuest or Google it to check.

There is a city named Usa in Japan that once labelled its products "MADE IN USA".

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Maybe sending everyone that has demonstrated a working knowledge to Gitmo, too.

Quite a straw man. Attribute an extreme position to the opposition as a hypothetical and then exclaim how extreme it is.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So terrorists that learn to fly a 767 are too dumb to operate a ham radio?

Learning to steer an already-flying 767 into a building is pretty damned easy...it's not rocket science. But my points were that 1) there's much easier ways today to get better communications under most circumstances and 2) the strategic significance of HF radio is already recognized.

And nobody believes that it's possible to choke off all communications between any two people on the planet.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, I don't think they'll be going after ham radios

Unless crotchety 80 year olds are considered terrorists, I'm certain ham radios are safe from government concern.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

"Funny" is a movable feast. Many asshats like to blame the poor reception their asshatery gets on a lack of sense of humor, when in fact it's simply as result of having some taste. Finding Adam Sandler or Carrottop to be dreary and dimwitted does not prove someone doesn't have a sense of humor, for example.

Thank you. I do have good taste.

Originally Posted by Flint

That's a good point, Maggie - in that one specific instance where the "asshattor" places direct blame upon the "asshatee" . . . However, consider the other side of the coin: the inability to recognize humorous intentions, IE responding out of left field with a stern reply to a light-hearted post. In other words, an "apples" reply to an "oranges" post.

When I 'post sternly' it will be after thinking a harsher word than 'retard'.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by slang

= on those items we do see a "Made in America" label, we wonder if there is a city in China that is named "America" and may even MapQuest or Google it to check.

= we most likely do not object to strangers taking photos of our cars or nice toys but get combative if that said stranger even suggests that we appear in the photos with that cool thing.

( Outside the US = we actively encourage [foreign] strangers to take photos of our vintage rust free cars or goofy/outdated toys and get combative if that said stranger even suggests that we NOT appear in the photos with that cool thing)

now that's funny !


Thank you for the nice post slang.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Unless crotchety 80 year olds are considered terrorists...

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, will be 67 in july.

Actually not all hams are old guys.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Actually not all hams are old guys.

Those ladies look like they're having lots of fun. And nice people too!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Learning to steer an already-flying 767 into a building is pretty damned easy...it's not rocket science.

They teach more than that at Embry-Riddle.

Quite a straw man. Attribute an extreme position to the opposition as a hypothetical and then exclaim how extreme it is.

No more of a straw man than you trying to change the subject to gun control. :p

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No more of a straw man than you trying to change the subject to gun control.

Come now...you wanted to wave a bloody rag about some mythical security-based confiscation that would upset me, and had to flee to *ham radio* of all things, because gun confiscation was too obvious, too implausible from the Bush administration, and completely resonant with liberal dogma.

You made up a radio confiscation out of whole cloth and attributed it to Bush, while Dianne Feinstein has already come out publically in favor of wholesale gun confiscation (of course *she* gets to keep *her* permit!).

*That* one is reality. Which should worry me more? And which is a straw man?

[xoxoxoBruce]

You're so busy wrapped up in all about you, you missed the point completely.
Of course I picked ham radio because you are involved with them and it wouldn't affect me at all. That was that god damned point.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Personally, I feel just about as free as I did before 9/11 and PATRIOT. Maybe I'm just not yearning for the right kind of freedoms to generate the "police state" paranoia that's so fashionable these days.

What worries me are the people who want to disarm me in the hopes that if they do fewer outlaw kids will shoot each other (and anybody else standing nearby) over drugs, money and women.

You better start yearning for the kind of freedoms others want if you expect other people to care when they come for your freedoms. That's the malaise that's going to fuck this country....me, me it's all about me.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Those ladies look like they're having lots of fun. And nice people too!

Most hams really are. Very helpful, too, and willing to teach. And MaggieL is right -- the hobby has plenty of young people these days.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You're so busy wrapped up in all about you, you missed the point completely.

You're missing the point that your hypothetical is hypothetical...as well as overreaching.

Gun confiscation is a real, acknowleged element of liberal policy. I ask again: should I care more about your hypothetical boogeyman or the real threats actually made by the Democrats?

One important thing it means to be an American is that we all arrive at political judgements based on our own values and beliefs. It's pretty lame for you to claim I'm selfish because I won't climb on your collectivist fantasy FUD bandwagon. You're selling an agenda that serves your own political self-interest; the fact that I won't buy gives you some moral high ground only in your own eyes.