The Doctor is Out

[Beest]

The doctors personality changes very dramatically, in many ways he is hardly the same person, just with the same memories.

I just finished season 6, including the Christmas episode with the trees and bomber. That's as mich as I can get on Netflix.

I'm like the Matt Smith Doctor much more than Tennant, as well as the whole story arc, is there a different producer or something?

Faith somewhat restored in the Who franchise, eagerly anticpating series 7, and then the new Doctor.

BTW the 'pull to open' thing in the episode where the TARDIS is put in a body was very good, presumably that's been true all along,

[DanaC]

Yes, different showrunner for Matt Smith. Moffatt, the guy who wrote several of the best episodes of the previous few series (The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances for Eccleston, and Blink and the episodes that introduced the River Song character for Tennant), took over from Russell T., who stepped down at the same time as Tennant.

Has a whole different feel to it under Moffatt. Feels more like a dark fairy tale.

[Beest]

good info, not just me going soft.

I liked how some of the character traits I was starting to find annoying became plot points, so they were intended to be malignant progressions of the doctors demeanor.

I've been "watching' on a tablet propped on the windowsill of th kitchen listening on headphones on a long curly cord. Now I've reached the limit of the new series I may go back and watch some classic to see if it's relly how I remeber it.

[henry quirk]

Watched the immensely unsatisfying 'The Name of the Doctor' last night.

Got me a theory...


We know Gallifreyans can control the outcome of regeneration.

Romana chose to regenerate and tried out multiple forms before settling...the Master (Prof Yana) bitched about being old and wanted to be young...his self-initiated regeneration was directed (by him) to that end.

We also know the McGann Doc is the one who become involved in the Time War.

Perhaps his failure to deliver the Master's remains to Skaro was the straw that broke the camel's back.

*shrug*

In any event: he was there from the beginning of the war...probably tried to stop it, avert it, play diplomat in it...he, of course, failed (not surprising...the McGann Doc was a bit of a pussy...'course, most of the Docs were a bit pussifed).

The McGann Doc understood the war would devastate Reality if Gallifreyans and Daleks kept at it...he envisioned an End...an End to the war by way of an end to the Players.

One device/process/thing/whatever was capable of delivering that End: The Moment.

The McGann Doc also understood: he was in no way capable of doin' the deed ('I'm too much the pussy,' he admitted to himself).

So: to gather up the components of The Moment, to use The Moment, required a Doc made of sterner (Stirner HA!) stuff.

I believe the McGann Doc self-initiated regeneration with the intent of becoming the kind of Doc needed to commit genocide on an intergalactic/multiple time-lined scale.

He succeeded.

The Time War lasted a second or 30,000 years (depending on perspective) so Hurt's Doc collected The Moment (and had ages to do so), probably committing all manner of atrocities to accomplish the task.

Then: he used it.

Throughout it all: he never once called himself 'Doctor', understanding that what he did would be/was horrific to any other incarnation of himself.

Only after he used The Moment did he use the name again, and then only after regenerating into the Eccleston Doc (as result of injuries from the using The Moment, or, through another self-initiated regen [a kind of suicide]).

That's my theory.

#

For the record...

Pussies and Near-Pussies: First, Second, Third, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh.

Gumptioned and Ready: Fourth.

The Best of All (if my theory is right): Hurt's Doc (who would count as the true Ninth, making the current Doc the Twelfth and the upcoming Doc the Thirteenth [and final] Doctor).

#

I admit to ambivalence on the Ninth.

What pussifies him is the whole 'Rose Tyler' business.

She ain't that smart or hot, and -- practically speaking -- she's just a smart chimp compared to the Doc.

Bestiality born of loneliness?

Four would never stoop so low (his companions, including the great Sarah Jane, were pets).

[DanaC]

Seven wasn't a pussy he was a devious trickster wizard. Vicious with it.

Nine wasn't a pussy. He was a combat damaged veteran.

(Actually, I don't think any of them were pussies:p)

[Sundae]

Did you hear about the Troughton episodes being found?
Nine eps found in Nigeria.
Maybe that's what Weapons Inspectors should do, given that they are lied to and their findings are lied about anyway. Trvael the world looking for deleted BBC tapes.

There are probably some out there even more valuable than Finnish 200 year old champagne.

[Chocolatl]

(I just finished season 2, and said goodbye to Rose. Sob, weep, sniffle.)

[Sundae]

But Captain Jack survived!

[henry quirk]

"a combat damaged veteran"

Not really, no.

From Wiki: "...the Tenth Doctor laments that demise of his current incarnation, with its own personality and attributes, makes for something much akin to an actual death."

I'd say that makes each incarnation of the Doc akin to being 'brothers' to the others, or witnesses to the others.

Another example of this is when First met Second and Third, referring to them as clown and dandy.

Sure the Eccleston Doc may feel terrible about what his predecessor did in the Time War (even as he sees the necessity of it), but it wasn't 'him' who did the deed(s).

As for my assessing the majority of Docs as pussies or near pussies: *shrug* We could go 'round and 'round on that one.

I'm far more interested in an assessment of my theory about Hurt's Doc.

Any one?

[glatt]

I've watched an episode or two of Doctor Who back when that guy wore the long scarves, but don't follow it at all.

When people number the Doctors, like they talk about the 9th Doctor, or whatever, are they talking about the storyline? Or is is just because it's such a long series and they keep getting new actors? In other words, does the plot make any reference to the fact that there have been numerous Doctors?

In the TV show Bewitched, there were two actors that payed the husband Darren. They switched actors after a few years. But there was only one Darren.

[DanaC]

In the show the doctor sort of dies and regenerates as a new iteration of the same character. Has all the memories, and retains certain key character traits. The same person, but also a different person. Each has a different personality, with different aspects coming to the fore. So, in some Doctors, the element of the trickster is more apparent, some are more whimsical, others more abrupt and terse, some more romantic in outlook, others very pragmatic.

Very occasionally, the Doctor will meet one of his earlier incarnations (often around anniversary specials - mostly not the best episodes in a lot of respects, but fun for the fans :p

[henry quirk]

glatt,

It's been central to the series, for most of the series, that the Doc, as a Time Lord, can regenerate, that is, become essentially a new person.

Sometimes this happens by choice; sometimes by accident.

With the Doc: regeneration is almost always because he puts his dumb ass into untenable and lethal situations.

So: when the Ninth is referred to, yeah, you're talkin' about the ninth regeneration of the Doctor, the ninth 'new person' to take up the name 'Doctor', sharing with the other incarnations mainly memories, but little else. That is, each is a distinct individual, not merely a continuation of the previous version.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"a combat damaged veteran"

Not really, no.

From Wiki: "...the Tenth Doctor laments that demise of his current incarnation, with its own personality and attributes, makes for something much akin to an actual death."

I'd say that makes each incarnation of the Doc akin to being 'brothers' to the others, or witnesses to the others.

Another example of this is when First met Second and Third, referring to them as clown and dandy.

Sure the Eccleston Doc may feel terrible about what his predecessor did in the Time War (even as he sees the necessity of it), but it wasn't 'him' who did the deed(s).

As for my assessing the majority of Docs as pussies or near pussies: *shrug* We could go 'round and 'round on that one.

I'm far more interested in an assessment of my theory about Hurt's Doc.

Any one?

Yeah. That's one way of looking at it. But other Doctors have expressed the view that they are basically the same person. Whilst also talking about their former selves as very different. Clearly they remember the events of their past selves' lives as their own (they often reminisce about things that they remember in this way).


As to your Hurt theory. Yeah, I can go with the idea that the Eighth Doc knew that he couldn;t make himself do what needed to be done and forced a regeneration into someone who could. Either that or he was fatally wounded in battle and regenerated into the Hurt Doctor who then activated the Moment, thereby saving all of time and space whilst damning himself and 'breaking the promise' of his name.

The pussy bit I don't agree with.

[henry quirk]

HA!

Fair enough.

[glatt]

Do they show this regeneration, or is it off camera in between seasons?

Seems like if it's so central, they would make a big deal out of it and show the scene.