Black Only Schools Proposed

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by lookout123

you aren't going to fix test results unless you can change the family. end of story.

Do you have any proof of this? I have given a source that states that by placing black children in a different environment, you can improve results. I also know of teachers with first hand experience in this area that support this idea so this isn't just a random article that contradicts reality.

Then that also brings up the question on why my brother and I had such different grades in high school. My best friend and his twin sister also had different grades too. Can you explain this if the sole factor is family?

the color of skin doesn't matter.

Genetically, of course, but social pressures can have a large influence on people. If I take a kid with brown eyes and a kid with blue eyes with equal intelligence capacity and raise them to believe that people with blue eyes are genetically inferior to people with brown eyes, do you think even with the same family and school system that they will produce similar educational results?

the emphasis placed on education and the living environment matter.

Yes, it is an enormous factor. Why do you think they are trying to change the environment for black kids?

this segregation will likely encourage integration on a larger scale

Hilarious! Man that was awesome!

Speaking of Australia (and I typed Abo because I wasy being lazy and did not want to type the whole word... I consider lots of things lots of things, whaaaa, you know I don't believe in offensive words).

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Hilarious! Man that was awesome!

Ah, another one of your intelligent posts that do nothing expect prove your ignorance in this debate. I wouldn't expect more from someone with a, correct me if I'm wrong, 170 IQ. :p

Now, since you can't seem to grasp what I am getting at, I will have to take this in small steps and hopefully you can follow along.

I initially said,

this segregation will likely encourage integration on a larger scale

which seems like a paradox but if you attempt to understand the situation as a whole we can see that this actually does make sense.

Let look at our current situation and I will be using examples with random numbers so they mean nothing.

Right now, the United States is very segregated racially and I am assuming we would like to see integration on a larger scale or at least not fight integration.

So lets look at a public high school in New York where, for the 100 black students, the graduation rate is 50%, only 5 of those 50 that graduate move onto college, and only three of those five actually graduate from college. Lets assume that those three get good jobs and are able to move out of the inner city into an area that is largely white while the other 97 stay in the inner city. Besides that, since the low graduation rates and consequently large crime right, whites and business are reluctant to move into that neighborhood.

Well, the people in that area decide to try something new and work with these black-emphasized schools. Lets take another 100 kids. Since these schools are suppose to raise graduation and college acceptance rates, 75 of the kids graduate from high school, 15 move onto college, and 12 graduate from college. That means instead of three, we have twelve kids that will get good jobs and move into mainly white areas. Not only that, but because of the higher graduation rate and consequentially lower crime rate, businesses and other racial groups will move into the area raising the integration of that area.

Get it? The segregation of schools will help black kids get better jobs and move out of the inner city. With the current integration schools we just see the kids segregate themselves and the cycle continues.


Now I am assuming because of your comment that had absolutely no substance or backing to your side and only consisted of a failed attempt to attack my credibility you have no actual reply and given up on the subject. Am I right?

Ah, another one of your intelligent posts that do nothing expect prove your ignorance in this debate. I wouldn't expect more from someone with a, correct me if I'm wrong, 170 IQ.

Thanks LJ, you have learned to fit right in.
In no way will an all black school encourage what they are stating it will.
No better jobs, no fewer drop-outs, none of it.

[piercehawkeye45]

Well maybe LJ was right?

Anyways, do you have anything to support your views? I have given my side and backed myself up many times and you don't provide anything.

And we shouldn't prevent this from happening just because we have doubts. I have already stated this before, the current system is NOT working. We are not integrated and we will not be as long as we follow the same path. We might as well try something new and risk the chance of it failing, even though evidence goes against this doubt.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

And we shouldn't prevent this from happening just because we have doubts. I have already stated this before, the current system is NOT working. We are not integrated and we will not be as long as we follow the same path. We might as well try something new and risk the chance of it failing, even though evidence goes against this doubt.

Amen
It's a fact that things aren't working for some pupils.
There seems to be an attitude that it is somehow pandering to a select group of people. But problems in education cost more money for society further on down the line. There's a higher cost to not trying.

This is a way to try and change things before people end up claiming benefits, committing crime, getting free healthcare.

What's the worst that can happen? Really?

There was a very interesting programme called The Unteachables on Channel 4 recently about disruptive and soon-to-be-excluded children of 14-15. I watched it huffily at first, thinking "The system isn't failing, they are! They need to learn to fit in, they'll have to for the rest of their life!"

The series changed my mind. Of the 16 kids selected for the study course, 9 (a clear majority) completed it and were back at school making progress the next school year. It changed their whole attitude to school and learning. I realised that some pupils do need a different approach - and who suffers if they don't get it? Well, the children of course. And then me at a later date.

Sure, as long as you feel the same way about a white only school when someone wants one.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Well maybe LJ was right?

Anyways, do you have anything to support your views? I have given my side and backed myself up many times and you don't provide anything.

And we shouldn't prevent this from happening just because we have doubts. I have already stated this before, the current system is NOT working. We are not integrated and we will not be as long as we follow the same path. We might as well try something new and risk the chance of it failing, even though evidence goes against this doubt.

No, LJ chose to ignore the multiple times I stated that the tests were incorrect and that I don't believe that I am that intelligent and chose just to use that one small part of the statement to try to hurt me, which you are now doing too because you are exactly like him. Someone who uses something they know about someone to try to hurt them when you simply disagree with them instead of debating them with your intellect like a stand-up human being. The proof is clear, shown by your above action.
A good thing, now I know who you are.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Sure, as long as you feel the same way about a white only school when someone wants one.

If this addresses me - all but one of the kids in the CH4 documentary in the were white. Race (black culture, call it what you will) is less of an issue in the UK than socio-economic status. I am all for targeting children whose needs aren't being met by the current education system. I would rather see something tried than call the wah-hah-hambulance saying "It's not fair to the kids who are already succeeding!" because they are the one who will have to deal with an uneducated sub-class in 20 years time.

As long as we look at people as different based on their shade we will CAUSE this problem and will never be able to solve it with anything that continues that behavior. Racism is racism is racism, the only way to end it is to acknowledge that there is only one race, the human one and treat us all like the single race we are, African descendants who each have different familial backgrounds, with different distances from the equator for different periods of time.
I am not "white". Even if one wanted to look at me like that, I am Cherokee, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Apache, Caribbean and probably African American (we are 99% sure, other than the fact that we are all African)... so what am I? I am human, anything else is a lie and needs to be openly treated as such.
As soon as we treat all who treat each other as anything but human as a negative the better.

[Sundae]

Don't be so hung up on skin colour RK - the title of the report was misleading.
It is about cultural differences.

I have cultural differences to people born in my own country to white families.
I have cultural differences to people born in this country to Asian families.
Admitting this does not make me racist.
Everyone I know has overcome these differences via education - but I am aware I don't meet the people who haven't. But in the last four months I've heard them - on the bus, in the Job Centre, in the Council Office, at alcohol counselling.

Different cultures do not deserve affirmative action. But they do deserve the best chance anyone can give them at being a valuable member of society and that starts in childhood.

[Aliantha]

To say you typed Abo because you were being lazy is exactly why there's a problem with race. Aboriginal people have been vicitmized ever since white settlement. All they want is for their race to be respectfully named. Believe me, if there were an Aboriginal person viewing your words, they would be incredibly offended by being called an 'abo'.

Education is working towards a more inclusive mix of curriculum in Australia. There is much more emphasis on the study of culture which focuses on the historical aspects. We definitely don't have it right. In fact, we're almost as far away from right as any other nation. I do believe we're on the right track though. Helping students understand the differences in culture goes a long way towards breaking down the metaphorical barriers between different groups. It takes away the 'hoodoo's' associated and creates a meaningful learning environment.

With regard to the comment about what happens at home has more influence. That's true, however what some families lack in social capital can only be supplied by outside influences. In most cases this is school. If the parents are racist or have closed minded views, then there's not much the school or any other government institution can do about it, but if the state has an opportunity to 'educate' the child in social matters which will (hopefully) create a better world view for the child, then why shouldn't it happen? This of course then means the children of that child will be one step further up the ladder and so on, so that hopefully after a number of generations the community at large is less racist etc. This is my utopia where education is concerned.

So what does that have to do with schools for minority groups? Not a whole lot, but if what I have dreamed of happened, there wouldn't be a need for people to send their kids to 'white only' or 'black only' schools (even if that were the case proposed here which I acknowledge it's not). It would mean that every child regardless of race, creed or religion would benefit from the same level of education.

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Don't be so hung up on skin colour RK - the title of the report was misleading.
It is about cultural differences.

I have cultural differences to people born in my own country to white families.
I have cultural differences to people born in this country to Asian families.
Admitting this does not make me racist.
Everyone I know has overcome these differences via education - but I am aware I don't meet the people who haven't. But in the last four months I've heard them - on the bus, in the Job Centre, in the Council Office, at alcohol counselling.

Different cultures do not deserve affirmative action. But they do deserve the best chance anyone can give them at being a valuable member of society and that starts in childhood.

So, some cultures are less intelligent than others?
Elitist.
So ironic, because the most ignorant and lest educated people I know, by population, locally, here are light skinned. NO ONE wants to start any special programs or affirmative action for them... why is that?
By your logic, those who are the least educated here should have the affirmative action, right?
You may want to read some of my previous posts on affirmative action.
It only harms those it purports to help and the idea of it is insulting.
I have worked in more than one company that actively used affirmative action... it does not work.
When someone gets a job that they are not qualified for, or even the most qualified for, it only harms them, their group and everyone involved.

Education is working towards a more inclusive mix of curriculum in Australia

No argument with me there. History is always going to be "based on a true story", written by the winners and those with an ax to grind. Mitigating that as best as one can is the job of an educator.
This proposal flies in the face of that mandate in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.

To say you typed Abo because you were being lazy is exactly why there's a problem with race.

Typing? WTF?

[Aliantha]

rkz...it doesn't matter what your reason is for making a racist statement/comment. The only thing that matters is you did whether you choose to agree or not. To be honest, I'm not even Aboriginal and I found the word offensive.

No argument with me there. History is always going to be "based on a true story", written by the winners and those with an ax to grind. Mitigating that as best as one can is the job of an educator.
This proposal flies in the face of that mandate in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.

Education is changing. Students are learning to find facts, not just listen to stories told by someone older than them. That's the difference between rote learning and more critical analysis techniques.

As an example, the school my children go to teaches philosophy to all students. Now this might sound like a real wank, but in reality what it's doing is teaching them to question facts and learning how to think in different ways. This is a great strategy for the school, and I support it fully.