frightening flight experience

[Undertoad]

You've got it all figured out, dontcha jane? Wouldn't it be funny if you were on the flight where they made that decision? You'd know exactly what was going on... it would be a laugh riot to you.

Quick question on the Coulter quote. IIRC it was made to point out the policy of not questionning more than 2 arabic people per flight. A) Do you believe this is not the policy or effect of the policy? and B) Are you in agreement with it (and if so, what the fuck?)

[lookout123]

you're right jane. absolutely right. having air marshalls watching those 14 syrians was nothing but racist.
it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 19 middle-eastern men flew 4 commercial aircraft into buildings and the ground with innocent civilians as their victims.
it has nothing to do with the fact that the intel currently available says that there is likely to be another attempt at hijacking a plane.
it has nothing to do with the fact that the people who have stated they intend to cause further death and destruction on american soil happen to be middle eastern men.
it has nothing to do with the fact that IF these 14 men were not truly musicians, but were hijackers who got control of the plane and used it as a weapon, people would be screaming "why didn't we do more" "you should have known..."
it has nothing to do with any of these points. you are so right jane. thank you for your wisdom.

[jane_says]

I don't understand what "decision" you mean.

As for the policy, I didn't write it. Like I said before, if that's the case, surely a better source than Anne Coulter could have been found for it, no? As I also said before, we have zero terrorist incidents as a result of the policy. You know the old adage that begins "if it ain't broke..."

When we become so freaked out over everyone who doesn't look and act exactly the way we do that people are crying on an airplane over the mere prescence of someone who fits their image of a terrorist, then yes, that's racism. Those Middle Eastern men were not the bad guys. They committed no crime. When people are scrutinized more closely for what they might do, even when there's zero evidence, because of the way they look, that's racism. "IF" won't work in this case. We don't arrest people or harass them because of things they haven't done yet. I might be statistically more likely to be able to buy crack from a young black man in the ghetto, but that doesn't mean we should arrest them all. Middle class white guys who act strange at work might be more likely to be serial killers, but that doesn't mean we get to detain them until we're sure they're not. Uneducated, poor single mothers might beat their children more often, but that doesn't mean they should be questioned by the grocery store cashier when they use their food stamps.

And no, I don't have everything figured out, not do I claim to. But I do know that when we start giving people grief for making some of us uncomfortable merely by being here, it's a short ride to holding people indefinitely without legal counsel and without charge, to having our private phone conversations tapped by the government, ad nausem. And that would be quite a leap of logic if it hadn't already started.

[Carbonated_Brains]

Doesn't the Cellar have any arab members?

Speak up!

I'm curious what their stance is on all of this.

[vsp]

The moral of the story is "If you're a Brown Person, ride Amtrak so that White America can relax when flying."

[Carbonated_Brains]

And the "policy" has nothing to do with arabic people. The fine is for ANY 2 visible minority members detained for secondary questioning, not "we'll fine you as per the Too Many Brown People clause".

I personally completely disagree with any sort of hard-fast guideline such as this, but you damn well better have excellent watchdogs keeping an eye on the errant stupid fuck who wants to harass all the black people, or brown people, or something.

It may make statistical sense in light of recent events to place enormous scrutiny on arabs. But as soon as you take away all the guidelines that PROTECT the innocent arabs just trying to make a flight, a lot of them are going to get exploited.

With the amount of people in here acting the way they are, I'm willing to bet at least a couple of the airport security personnel currently employed (especially those employed since 9/11) are just itching to catch some "dirty arab" ready to bomb a plane.

Once an ethnicity is put under the magnifying glass on account of a bunch of assholes from that ethnicity, it is IMPERATIVE we make sure that the vast majority of innocent arabs aren't targeted.

And I don't give a shit about how uncomfortable white people are at the moment. Think about how insanely uncomfortable regular-Joe arabs are right now, knowing that every time they go outside, someone thinks they're going to set off a bomb, and if they look at somebody the wrong way, they're a terrorist.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by jane_says

I As I also said before, we have zero terrorist incidents as a result of the policy. You know the old adage that begins "if it ain't broke..."

we also used to allow cockpit doors to stand open in flight, the policy used to be for pilots to comply with terrorist demands if immediate landing wasn't available... those practices never had negative results, until...

sometimes you can't wait for bad shit to happen before you open your eyes. "brown people" are not being targeted. the current intel suggests that there are going to be further attempts at hijacking from muslim terrorists, who are generally, from arab descent. certain things raise red flags. if there are enough red flags then further scrutiny is required.
14 syrians - check against data base for terrorist affiliation, if none found clear for travel
14 syrians on one way tickets, pay closer attention
14 syrians who do not sit together but take items into a restroom and pass it off to each other pay very close attention.
anything other than this and the air marshalls, DHS, who ever is responsible, would have been remiss in their duties.

the 14 syrians were not denied access to flights, they were not harassed in the air, they were not detained on the ground. they were watched, as they should have been.

[Carbonated_Brains]

As we exited the jetway and entered the airport, we saw many, many men in dark suits. A few yards further out into the terminal, LAPD agents ran past us, heading for the gate. I have since learned that the representatives of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD), the Federal Air Marshals (FAM), and the Transportation Security Association (TSA) met our plane as it landed. Several men -- who I presume were the federal air marshals on board -- hurried off the plane and directed the 14 men over to the side.

Not detained my ass.

[vsp]

Originally Posted by lookout123

the 14 syrians were not denied access to flights, they were not harassed in the air, they were not detained on the ground. they were watched, as they should have been.

If they were watched, investigated and cleared and went on to play their concert without incident, that'd be one thing.

If they were watched, investigated and cleared and went on to play their concert, oblivious to the fact that their mere presence and innocuous behavior creeped out a skittish white fellow passenger with 9/11 on the brain (they didn't SMILE BACK at her! The horror!), who then posted a paranoid rant about her flight experience online, lighting up the Internet and talk radio with debate as to whether they were REALLY sinister Syrian terrorists testing out methods of blowing up American airplanes in the name of Allah, making them minor celebrities of an unwelcome variety, that's quite another.

I thought Driving While Black was a bit much, but Flying While Arabic takes it to a whole new level.

BTW, the lead picture on this <a href="http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2004/07/21/askthepilot95/">Salon article</a> is hysterically appropriate.

[Carbonated_Brains]

Never trust a man with an accordian.

[jane_says]

That white chick in the front freaking out looks like Beth Littleford. Beth Little ford is hot. That is all.

[Carbonated_Brains]

I'd be all worried that she'd pull that face during coitus.

[jane_says]

As an aside, has anyone seen any mainstream media coverage of this episode? I know it's been all over the internet, and my husband is the producer of a local radio talk show and the rednecks have been burning it up there, but has CNN or any "reliable" news source had anything to say?

[jane_says]

If she did, I'd assume I'd done something very, very right or very, very, wrong.

[tw]

How to get you to support the current president. It's an old old trick. Promote fear. Only question remaining is who really is the source of this speculative article. He looked Arabic and did not smile back. Dear god. The world is going to end. Did I mention the Arabic looking character driving slowly through my neighborhood looking at front doors?

I believe the guy wrote a book called "Give me a Break". Promote fear and suddenly enemies are everywhere.

Last time Ashcroft tried to promote fear, the centrist Tom Ridge instead said it was nonsense (chatter was not unusual) and refused to raise the Warning to Orange. This must have infuriated the extremists who needed that threat warning for that week's approval numbers.