09-14-2007, 06:20 AM | #91 |
still says videotape
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He's a big boy, he can take it.
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If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
09-14-2007, 08:30 AM | #92 | |
Radical Centrist
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Or was that just a throwaway line, something you said to justify your position, that you didn't really think about. If someone approached me and gave me money I would never accept it. (And then I would go home and re-think my decision to wear sweat pants everywhere.) Accepting charity you don't need is fundamentally dishonest. |
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09-14-2007, 09:56 AM | #93 | ||||||
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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Can you or I provide the same services that a full-time, well-trained social worker can? Can you or I identify mental illness, refer the person in need to a qualified care giver? Do you or I have the backing and buying power of the government? IMO, a professional will do a better job than you or I would be able to. Quote:
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Yeah - TYPICALLY, it's the folks who want to do away with welfare that also don't want to leagalize cock sucking. Quote:
I want so bad to run a two minute mile, be King of the World, be 7 feet tall, and I'm working on it real hard. How hard do I have to work?
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
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09-14-2007, 10:37 AM | #94 |
changed his status to single
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how hard have you tried? my guess is you really haven't tried to do any of those things.
there is a huge difference between saying "i want to have enough money for a fancy car and a big house... now pass me a beer", and "i want to have enough money for a fancy car and a big house, now pass me that pen so i can sketch out my plan". saying you want something is not the same as committing yourself to achieving it. and, yeah, you can revert to your ridiculous examples for a response if you want.
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Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin |
09-14-2007, 10:50 AM | #95 | |
Goon Squad Leader
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Had you been paying attention, you would have noticed that DanaC said: "a manageable portion of their wealth/income." and then you said: "Great, define that." and then I said "From each according to his ability. To each according to his need." I answered your request for clarification of DanaC's statement. Lecture? Not really. Perhaps you have a guilty conscience.
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09-14-2007, 10:58 AM | #96 | ||
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
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09-14-2007, 11:32 AM | #97 |
changed his status to single
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To answer your question, I don't have a problem with charity groups. I support a few myself. There is a huge difference between a charity group that I can voluntarily give my time and money to, and the government that takes my money with no promise of efficiency.
and on the second issue, this has been a discussion of economics and charity, you stepped in with "i want to be 7 feet tall". That's ridiculous, that's not a goal, it's a fantasy. State a financial or social status goal and it can be achieved by someone willing to do what it takes. (obvious caveats for physical or mental disability with some goals) Goal: I want to have my home paid off in 15 years with no other debt. I would like to also own a beachhouse in mexico. I would like to semi-retire in 15 years and split my time between these two locations. not my actual goals, just examples Requirement: X dollars Task: Build business to generate Y income annually, putting Z aside... Get the point? If that goal is really a priority then you can achieve it. It may have just been a dumb movie, but Pursuit of Happyness was based on a real guy. Some people have the drive to do what it takes to achieve even their most ridiculous goals. Most people sit around and bitch about why they can't achieve anything, and it almost always boils down to someone is "holding me back". BS. You hold you back.
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Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin |
09-14-2007, 03:47 PM | #98 | |
Looking forward to open mic night.
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You are right, I didn't think that through........
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09-14-2007, 04:50 PM | #99 | ||
The future is unwritten
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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09-14-2007, 05:02 PM | #100 | |
The future is unwritten
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According to his ability... how much is that? Who determines my ability, you? How do you know how much I can spare without jeopardizing my lifestyle, my security, or even my needs. How do you know if I'm supporting aging parents, a child with expensive special needs, 3 ex-wives and 14 children? Obviously you can't. More obviously you shouldn't.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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09-14-2007, 05:33 PM | #101 |
Goon Squad Leader
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Yes, I did answer his question. Because you dislike, misunderstand or disagree with my answer doesn't change the fact that I did clarify DanaC's phrase. I'm sorry you think the quote is trite.
According to his ability... how much is that? Are you seriously suggesting there is a discrete finite numeric answer to this question? It is obvious to me that there isn't such a single number. Who determines ability, me? No. Ideally, practically, *you* determine what your ability is, just as l123 has eloquently described elsewhere. I did not and do not pretend that I know how much you can spare without jeopardizing yadda yadda yadda... Please. And as to the Marxist Chicken Littles in the audience, I ask you: How is this point of view different from our current system of progressive income tax rates? Those with more, contribute more, and those with less, contribute less. As a point of view, not as a statistical reality to four decimal places. I know as you all do that there are many example of gaming the system for individual gain. There are far far more examples of this system working undramatically well where people give / surrender / part with / yield / pay willingly or unwillingly their taxes that don't involve lawbreaking or law bending. As to my *opinion* about your ability to pay, you know what they say. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. And in this case, I'll keep mine both to myself; I don't feel like sharing either with you.
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09-14-2007, 05:43 PM | #102 | |
We have to go back, Kate!
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It's also about intent. Is the intent just to bring in enough revenue to run the country (with the allowance made for differencnes in income and therefore percentage of the burden), or is the intent to try and bring about a more equitable society? Obviously, I realise that not everyone agrees that this would be the effect of redistributive taxation, or even that this is something that should be 'socially engineered' in that way. |
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09-14-2007, 06:37 PM | #103 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
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Last Sundays Get Fuzzy says it all.
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Annoy the ones that ignore you!!! I live a blessed life I Love my Country, I Fear the Government!!! Heavily medicated for the good of mankind. |
09-14-2007, 06:51 PM | #104 |
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
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I see. Well, I'll change my plans for after law school then. I'll take out loans to pay for it of course, but I'll just pay the minimum each month since there's no advantage to being debt free. I'll spend not only my generous paycheck, but I'll run up credit card debt like a typical person. Cars, a huge house, fancy vacations and all the techno-toys I want, I'll push myself as far as I can just like other people do. Then, when my house of cards topples I'll declare bankruptcy and use my knowledge as a lawyer to write off everything I can as necessities; after all, why should I give up my house when others aren't forced to? I'll end up paying back 10 cents for every dollar I owed, and in a few years I can start the whole thing over again. And while I'm unemployed I'll have Dana there to defend my right to money even though I was a complete asshole and screwed so many other people over. It's the same thing that lots of other people do, I'll just do it a bit bigger. I love my rights!
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09-14-2007, 06:55 PM | #105 |
We have to go back, Kate!
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I believe the better you treat people, the better they are likely to behave.
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