I'm Moving to CANADA

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Not his faith, all faiths.

Bush beat Kerry amongst Catholics

From Positive Atheism

(Emphasis and italics added)

"Religious freedom and tolerance is a protected right. I am committed to the First Amendment principles of religious freedom, tolerance, and diversity. Whether Mormon, Methodist, Jewish, or Muslim, Americans should be able to participate in their constitutional free exercise of religion. I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it.
-- George W. Bush, second remark, October 15, 2000, Web, White & Blue 2000, Rolling Cyber Debate question: "With religious diversity increasing, what are your thoughts on the protection of religious freedom and the separation of church and state? Should religions like Wicca be banned from recognition by the military, as some legislators suggest?" Bush honors diversity, but only within certain bounds, saying nothing in favor of one's Constitutional right to freedom from religion (he's against it: see below) and speaking out once again against Americans' right to practice the Wiccan religion with the same freedoms enjoyed by those who practice Bush's own religion of Evangelical Christianity.
Notice how Bush does away with the Wiccan's right to religious liberty by redefining Wicca as not a religion and further denigrating it with the term witchcraft. In the same way, atheism, that is, the freedom from government-imposed or government-sponsored religious intrusion, being not itself a bona fide religion, is twisted by Bush to become a viewpoint or practice or right that is not covered under the First Amendment guarantee of religious Liberty. (To be fair and honest, Bush's opponent, Al Gore, slyly answered every other element of the same question, but silently passed over the part about Wicca.)"

[Radar]

How's Melbourne? I might like it there.

[Undertoad]

I'm glad we have clarified the semantics from "his faith" down to "everyone except Wiccans in the military".

Because I believe this election was lost by over-reaching, self-indulgent attacks causing the base to react in kind.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I'm glad we have clarified the semantics from "his faith" down to "everyone except Wiccans in the military".

I believe that the two are inextricably linked. I don't believe that he is capable of seperating his decision making skills from his revelatory dependency.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Because I believe this election was lost by over-reaching, self-indulgent attacks causing the base to react in kind.

I won't disagree with that.

[Undertoad]

Well, be part of the solution. W just noted in his press conference that all Americans of any faith or of no faith are equally American.

If you're scared, get a dog.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Well, be part of the solution. W just noted in his press conference that all Americans of any faith or of no faith are equally American.

I don't have TV, sorry. Is there a webcast?

And I am part of the solution. I just haven't had the opportunity to gripe about Kerry yet.

I'm an equal opportunity pessimist.

Edit:

I was able to generate a link to the video of the speech, but I can't get it to save from the link.

Here

[bluesdave]

Originally Posted by cowhead

what I meant to say was "thank you Bluesdave" for answering that question, I have a couple more of them for you though....

1.) what's the exchange rate
2.) do they like fairly 'rockin' guitar player (loud rythmic)
3.) do I 'AVE to drink fosters? (bleargh! tastes like like.. bud.. but somehow worse)
4.) what sort of diet (other than seafood) is 'regional' (never heard of australian cuisine) AND NO 'shrimp on the bar-bee jokes need apply ) (too easy!) crock? (good eats by the by)
5.) I don't care if they support the war, as an american do you think I would be shunned by that alone? (f*ck I'd be an ex-patriot! that's gotta count for something!)
6.) does the toilet water really go the 'other' direction? Counterclockwise?

1. 75 cents US/Aussie which means that your dollars are worth approx 25% more down here.

2. I'm sure there are plenty of good rock bands down here - I'm into Jazz and Blues, unfortunately, so I'm not up on the rock scene. Jag probably knows some.

3. There's a wide range of beers available, don't you worry about that! We make the best wine in the world, too (that's official)!

4. Well seafood is very popular, and we have the best seafood in the world, but we also have good red meats, pork, chicken etc. You can also buy meat like kangaroo and buffalo in some supermarkets. I know there are restaurants serving crocodile, but I don't know if you can buy the meat itself anywhere.

6. Yes, but this is actually quite a difficult experiment to set up correctly. Generally, toilets and sinks (basins), are too small to show the effect reliably. Water can go in either direction depending on the design. BTW, it is clockwise in the southern hemisphere and counter clockwise in the north.

[bluesdave]

Originally Posted by Radar

How's Melbourne? I might like it there.

Melbourne is cold and wet. It has large, straight roads laid out in a grid (because the city was designed from day one), and has a good transport system - trams and trains. Melbourne is cold and wet. It also has good restaurants, and supposedly a better social life (debatable). Melbourne is cold and wet. The people are more conservative, and withdrawn. Melbourne is cold and wet.

Sydney on the other hand, is friendly, bright and breezy. We love outdoor activities, enjoying life, and the sun shines 80% plus days of the year. Sydney people are friendly. Our road system sucks because Sydney was never designed - it just grew. Our transport system is having some troubles at the moment - mainly the trains, which can be a little unreliable. Our buses and ferries are good though. Sydney is a sunny, bright, friendly, and happy place.

Melbourne is cold and wet. :p

[Undertoad]

I was waiting for a transcript

Relevant section:

QUESTION: Mr. President, your victory at the polls came about in part because of strong support from people of faith, in particular Christian evangelicals and Pentecostals and others. And Senator Kerry drew some of his strongest support from those who do not attend religious services.

What do you make of this religious divide, it seems, becoming a political divide in this country? And what do you say to those who are concerned about the role of a faith they do not share in public life and in your policies?

BUSH: Yes. My answer to people is, I will be your president regardless of your faith, and I don't expect you to agree with me, necessarily, on religion. As a matter of fact, no president should ever try to impose religion on our society.

The great tradition of America is one where people can worship the way they want to worship. And if they choose not to worship, they're just as patriotic as your neighbor. That is an essential part of why we are a great nation.

And I am glad people of faith voted in this election. I am glad -- I appreciate all people who voted.

And I don't think you ought to read anything into the politics, the moment, about whether or not this nation will become a divided nation over religion. I think the great thing that unites us is the fact you can worship freely if you choose, and if you -- you don't have to worship. And if you're a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim, you're equally American.

That is such a wonderful aspect of our society. And it is strong today and it'll be strong tomorrow.

When they do right, you must notice them doing it.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I was waiting for a transcript

Relevant section:


When they do right, you must notice them doing it.

Well, he has spoken well. Let's see if he delivers.

[hot_pastrami]

Plan to leave the U.S.? Here are the options. The work "bleak" springs to mind.

[Elspode]

Does no one besides me find it a bit arrogant that W presumes to draw the line at accepting religions that *he* finds acceptable? Or did I miss the part in the Constitution that said "freedom of religion as determined by the sitting President"? If Wicca, for example, is not specifically included in the Army Chaplin's handbook as an "official" religion, and therefore to be allowed, you can bet your sweet ass it will be *disallowed*, and therefore suppressed.

His dismissive attitude toward Wiccans (and any other path not specifically included in his rather small list, by association) is a fine illustration of his overall attitudes towards Americans. (Not a quote, but might as well be) "If you aren't a big enough or rich enough group, fuck off. You have no benefit for me or my ilk to gain from you."

Face it folks...you are entitled to as much equality and as many rights as you can afford to pay for, and not a bit more. If you have the bad judgement to follow an obscure religious path, or the bad fortune to be impoverished, old, sick or handicapped, you really shouldn't be in a healthy society anyway.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Ha, that's why I own a 2004 Honda Civic. Cause it's gonna outlast any POS you sell. And I'm not Jewish, so you wasted a perfectly good schmuck on me.

well, i guess you told me.

note to self:
never argue with bullit. he's scary smart.

[Bullitt]

Note to self, LJ is also scary smart. Any arguments with him will get nowhere.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Elspode

If Wicca, for example, is not specifically included in the Army Chaplin's handbook as an "official" religion, and therefore to be allowed, you can bet your sweet ass it will be *disallowed*, and therefore suppressed.

i refuse to get into an argument about GWB's views on the issue, but to clarify - the military chaplaincy recognizes anyone's right to worship anything they want. the difficulty and some of the conflict stems from the military's inability to provide a chaplain for every faith group. a base only has a certain number of billets for chaplains and they are filled with, generally - 1 catholic priest and a couple protestants of various denominations, and if it is a very large base they may have a rabbi, and on rare occassions an imam.

LDS, orthodox, JW's, etc... are assisted in finding a like group in the local community or if there is a large enough group they will be provided a spot on base.

part of the reason that chaplains only fall into the basic categories of catholic, protestant, jewish, muslim, (and a few eastern orthodox) is primarily funding. if there are only X amount of slots allowed then it makes sense to fill them with an individual that can minister to the greatest number with a common faith. the second is educational/financial. chaplains are officers due to their educational background. the chaplaincy argued for years before admitting muslim chaplains because a catholic priest or Lutheran minister must spend years in formal education before entering the chaplaincy - to make sure that everyone was treated the same there was a requirement of an Master's of Divinity for any chaplain candidate - even for denominations that don't require one for ordination.

anyway - that is a little insight into the military chaplaincy and it's workings. i can assure you that a wiccan group (sorry i don't know the right terminology) has the right to worship even in the military. the only minority group that i am aware of having their requests rejected was a group of "satanists" (read drunken 19 y.o. jackasses that weren't practicing anything other than ruffling feathers) demanded that they be allowed to use the cross from the catholic service as part of their ceremony. the request was rejected with the caveat that if they could show proof of some organized group of likeminded individuals on base that a cross would be purchased specifically for their meetings in the next budget go 'round.