Gay Marriage - Page 9

Griff · 11-24-2003, 07:22 AM

putting on evolutionary biology cap In nature the gay monkeyman would probably play the role of helper to the breeders. In wolf packs the non-breeding members help feed and protect the little ones, which has obvious advantages to the group. The stereotypical nurturing nature of gay men would seem to indicate this role.

juju · 11-24-2003, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Nature rarely does things randomly, so this question is more difficult than it appears.

Sure it does. It's called genetic drift.

Undertoad · 11-24-2003, 10:39 AM

OK, but it seems genetic drift would be less likely to explain something that appears to be common through many cultures and through many histories?

wolf · 11-24-2003, 10:40 AM

I think that's Jung Collective Unconscious at work there ...

juju · 11-24-2003, 11:11 AM

Not necessarily. It just depends on whether the natural selection is strong enough to overcome the random genetic drift. There are all kinds of mutations that are common throughout many cultures and histories that arose as a result of genetic drift.

I'm not saying homosexuality <i>isn't</i> a result of natural selection. I don't know. I'm just presenting alternative options.

juju · 11-24-2003, 01:00 PM

Here's one idea of how this might coincide. If it seems far-fetched, then hey, it's just an idea. :)

There's some evidence in this this Nature article that suggests that the more older brothers a male has, the more likely he is to be homosexual. If this is true, then homosexuality genes, originally created through genetic drift, could still be passed on by heterosexual siblings.

It does sound pretty far-fetched, but is a neat idea!

That same article also says that you can tell whether or not someone is a lesbian by the relative lengths of their index and ring fingers. I know, it sounds like total BS, but apparently there's some evidence for it.

Undertoad · 11-24-2003, 01:11 PM

Hmmm, with hands like that you'd also be able to throw a softball pretty well.

Whit · 11-24-2003, 01:25 PM

      So lesbians have a couple of longer fingers than straight women? There's a joke in this somewhere...

Undertoad · 11-24-2003, 01:32 PM

Wow. Tough room.

Whit · 11-24-2003, 01:51 PM

      Oh yeah, untill someone can give me a solid reason to say gays shouldn't marry that isn't a religious or emotional thing, I say let 'em marry.

Griff · 11-24-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Wow. Tough room.

I thought it was funny.

juju · 11-24-2003, 01:54 PM

I went to a debate between Ben Stein and Al Franken last night (get it? Franken-Stein! Get it? HAHAHAHAHA!)

Er, anyway, Al Franken was mocking the "Because marriage is between a man and a woman" argument. He said it wasn't a reason at all, just a restatement of what you believe.

Griff · 11-24-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit
      Oh yeah, untill someone can give me a solid reason to say gays shouldn't marry that isn't a religious or emotional thing, I say let 'em marry.

Slang assures me that the mega post is on its way... we shall see.

Whit · 11-24-2003, 02:06 PM

      Yeah, and as much as I like slang, I think he may have trouble with this. This board is really tough on statistics for example. If they are leaning, it's going to be pointed out. And pretty much all stats are. Same goes for any studies he links. Still, if he's putting this much effort into it, it should be an interesting read. Assuming, of course, it's not all based off stuff Rush said...

wolf · 11-24-2003, 02:07 PM

Don't think it will be ... I've seen some of the preliminary work.

View Poll Results: Should gay marriages be legal?
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11-24-2003, 07:22 AM	#121
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	putting on evolutionary biology cap In nature the gay monkeyman would probably play the role of helper to the breeders. In wolf packs the non-breeding members help feed and protect the little ones, which has obvious advantages to the group. The stereotypical nurturing nature of gay men would seem to indicate this role. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

11-24-2003, 10:40 AM	#124
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I think that's Jung Collective Unconscious at work there ... __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-24-2003, 01:25 PM	#128
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	So lesbians have a couple of longer fingers than straight women? There's a joke in this somewhere... __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

11-24-2003, 01:51 PM	#130
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Oh yeah, untill someone can give me a solid reason to say gays shouldn't marry that isn't a religious or emotional thing, I say let 'em marry. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

11-24-2003, 10:39 AM	#123
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	OK, but it seems genetic drift would be less likely to explain something that appears to be common through many cultures and through many histories?

11-24-2003, 11:11 AM	#125
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Not necessarily. It just depends on whether the natural selection is strong enough to overcome the random genetic drift. There are all kinds of mutations that are common throughout many cultures and histories that arose as a result of genetic drift. I'm not saying homosexuality <i>isn't</i> a result of natural selection. I don't know. I'm just presenting alternative options.

11-24-2003, 01:00 PM	#126
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Here's one idea of how this might coincide. If it seems far-fetched, then hey, it's just an idea. :) There's some evidence in this this Nature article that suggests that the more older brothers a male has, the more likely he is to be homosexual. If this is true, then homosexuality genes, originally created through genetic drift, could still be passed on by heterosexual siblings. It does sound pretty far-fetched, but is a neat idea! That same article also says that you can tell whether or not someone is a lesbian by the relative lengths of their index and ring fingers. I know, it sounds like total BS, but apparently there's some evidence for it.

11-24-2003, 01:11 PM	#127
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Hmmm, with hands like that you'd also be able to throw a softball pretty well.

11-24-2003, 01:32 PM	#129
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Wow. Tough room.

11-24-2003, 01:54 PM	#132
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	I went to a debate between Ben Stein and Al Franken last night (get it? Franken-Stein! Get it? HAHAHAHAHA!) Er, anyway, Al Franken was mocking the "Because marriage is between a man and a woman" argument. He said it wasn't a reason at all, just a restatement of what you believe. Last edited by juju; 11-24-2003 at 01:56 PM.

11-24-2003, 02:06 PM	#134
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Yeah, and as much as I like slang, I think he may have trouble with this. This board is really tough on statistics for example. If they are leaning, it's going to be pointed out. And pretty much all stats are. Same goes for any studies he links. Still, if he's putting this much effort into it, it should be an interesting read. Assuming, of course, it's not all based off stuff Rush said... __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

11-24-2003, 02:07 PM	#135
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Don't think it will be ... I've seen some of the preliminary work. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

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