What is a pagan

[morethanpretty]

For sky...

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Sometimes it's a tool because they don't have anything smarter to talk about and since it's a good topic to hook someone in. It's whamy. An Instant star is born.

I might be wrong but for as long as I have watched these kind of supposed talks there's never any resolution so it has to be for something other than understanding? * shrug*


OR maybe it's about showing up the supposid lie inherent in it. There's an axe to grind. *shrug*


I wonder why we don't have threads about 'what it is to be a Satanist, witch or Pagan. Christianity is just a soft target. Like political affiliation.

Personally, I've always wanted to do a 'what is a pagan' thread.

What is a pagan really? I don't have much clue, help sky and I out Elspode. PLZ!

[Elspode]

I'll give you the basic rundown. This is a common and entirely fair question.

The word "pagan" is rooted in Latin, and strictly speaking, means "country dwellar". When the early Church and its adherants began to take over Northern Europe and the British Isles, the indigenous peoples practiced various forms of ritual and sympathetic magic which were tied to the cycles of the Earth and the beasts, plants and materials which make up the planet. As these peoples were assimilated, the word "pagan" took on a connotation which meant, basically, unsophisticed or unenlightened. To be a Pagan person at the time of the Church's expansion was to be out of the norm, or at least out of what the norm was to eventually become.

Nowadays, "Pagan" generally is used to describe anyone who walks a path outside of the Judeo-Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist realms, although many Christians would undoubtedly lump Hindus and Buddhists under the Pagan umbrella as well, being either essentially humanistic or polytheistic as those two paths are.

When it comes to the question of what it means to be a Pagan, well...that's as personal as personal gets. I don't mean that it is a secret. I mean that the reasons that a person might choose to walk a Pagan path are as varied and diverse as people themselves...as are the choice of possible paths that could be termed "pagan".

I can therefore only characterize what it means to *me* to be a Pagan. For me, it means that I believe that the essence of the human soul and the spiritual practices undertaken to nurture it are derived from the Universe itself. I draw energies from the Earth and the All, and channel them to effect change in my life and my reality. I believe that all things are different facets of one great Whole, as it were. Because of this, I am intimately intertwined with Deity, and not separate or beneath Divinity. In short...Thou Art God. I am God. We are all God. When I participate in ritual, I visualize known archetypes, aspects of Divinity that have been described over the centuries as corporeal manifestations of essential human concepts...Aphrodite for Love, Hermes for Communication, The Green Man or Cerrunos for the essential male energies, and so on, but still, I am a part of what They are. They are me and I am They.

Overarching all of it is my recognition that Deity is dualistic. Deity is both female and male, God and Goddess. I believe that the Universe itself is inherently dualistic, filled with positive and negative charge, dark and light, good and bad...and that all of these forces are inextricably intertwined, two halves of the same Whole, two sides of the same coin.

That covers the essential meaning of being a Pagan for me. Others will undoubtedly give you a very different view, and as a Pagan...I know that this is okay, because I do not, cannot, and would not presume to have the Answers. I belive what I believe, and you should believe what you believe.

What no one should do is force what they believe on others.

[Flint]

My wife identifies herself as Pagan. She tells me it has no specific "organizational" meaning. I guess I see it as a loose term that describes people who walk an unconventional path (or rather, a path that was once common-place, but has now been purposefully marginalized by more organized groups with specific agendas...) We had a Pagan hand-fasting ritual, jumping the broom and reading vows. I have to admit, that was an almost uncomfortable level of prescribed ritual for me. I don't want, or need, even the appearance of doing things "because that's the way it's done" as they say. I understand, to be Pagan is nothing specific, you make it your own. But, for me, I don't need to call myself something or do things a certain way. There is a path we try to walk, and we stumble our way towards what we think is right, but to try to describe it by definition or ritual is... well it seems a little disrespectful to me, honestly. It seems disrespectful of the great mystery to pretend to have it pinned down in any way. I want to remain wide open, and fully aware of my smallness and ignorance. Maybe that's what Pagan means... but I don't need to call it anything.

It just is.

[Elspode]

The purpose of ritual is to help *us* access our spirituality. Ritual is a bridge between we, as spiritual beings having a human experience, and we, as humans seeking a spiritual experience...if that makes any sense at all. I didn't coin the notion, but I think it expresses my feelings about things pretty well. "We are spiritual beings having a human experience" is the way I first heard it.

Ritual is like reciting a mantra, or doing a thing over and over until it becomes second nature. It is a way of sort of distracting one's focus from the mundane so that the usually unseen/unfelt can creep in. It is us trying to overcome the limitations of the flesh through repetition, visualization and concentration. Ritual doesn't force the Universe into any particular configuration, nor does it presume to be based on some overt understanding of the mystery of Existence. It is simply a tool, like any other tool. Because of that, I don't believe it to be disrespectful in any sense. I do differentiate between Pagan ritual practices and Christian ritual practices in the sense that, as Pagans, we are not prostrating ourselves before a Deity whom are supposed to both love and fear.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Elspode

It is a way of sort of distracting one's focus from the mundane so that the usually unseen/unfelt can creep in.

That's a great way to describe it. Reminds me alot of Joseph Campbell, whom I respect as a truly non-specific thinker on spirituality.

[Elspode]

I consider Joseph Campbell, above all other authors and scientists, to be the most spiritual non-religious person ever. His obvious enthusiasm and truly deep understanding of what makes Man, as a species, tick on the iconic level was nothing short of awe-inspiring. Much of what I think about my place in the world and The Universe is informed by Mr. Campbell's stupifyingly insightful work.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I'll give you the basic rundown. This is a common and entirely fair question.

What elspode said ... except that I don't mix and match pantheons.

[Elspode]

More often than not, neither do I, for a specific working, meditation or ritual. But I do not strictly work within a single pantheon. I use 'em all.

[Sperlock]

My own beliefs are pretty close to Elspode's. I tend to not focus on any pantheons, though.

Originally Posted by Flint

That's a great way to describe it. Reminds me alot of Joseph Campbell, whom I respect as a truly non-specific thinker on spirituality.

Did you read the Faces of God?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Elspode

More often than not, neither do I, for a specific working, meditation or ritual. But I do not strictly work within a single pantheon. I use 'em all.

Been there, tried that. As I think you're aware, like many NeoPagans I started out as a Wiccan but found a significant lack of depth in terms of spiritual, and particularly Shamanic workings, which weren't much covered in typical Wiccan practice. I have trained with a Native American Shaman who took me as a student knowing that I would be following my own faith-path, not hers. One of her best apprentices, incidentally, was a full-on Born Again Christian, and fueled all of his workings with Christ-Energy. It worked. For me, I find a deeper connection being able to work within one pantheon, rather that a one from Collum A, two from Collum B approach (that's a very clever pun rather than being a misspelling, btw).

Most statements about what Paganism is, or what being a Pagan means tend to end with "YMMV." So....

YMMV.

I'm not a Pagan but I sure like to party with em'!

[Flint]

This is my deal: I don't know what a pantheon is, and I have no interest in knowing. Post #11 by wolf made my eyes glaze over (no offense). To me, if I wanted to learn special rituals and phrases, I'd just join a Catholic Church. There is no difference to me between the desire to be identified as a "Wiccan" or a "Pagan" or a "Southern Baptist" or a whatever. It all seems contrived and overly specific, and I don't think that's where it's at, for me. I don't want to get bogged down in the mechanics of it all, and lose the point. There is a baseline of core beliefs that I hold true, and beyond that, I would just feel like I was playing make-believe Church. Different strokes for different folks, you know. I think it's great when people find something that works for them, and as long as it isn't harmful to others, go for it. I'm right there with you, in spirit. I just feel awkward using the lingo.

[skysidhe]

Thank you morethanpretty!

Goodmorning!


I like to call myself a pagan as someone who dosn't have a religion but I realize that isn't correct elspode and wolf. I don't intend any disrespect to anyone who is divoted to rutual and form. I should call myself a heathen instead I suppose.

It's my day off so I'll come back later and participate more!


ps. I want to know what a pantheon is. I am interested in learning. thanks

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Flint

This is my deal: I don't know what a pantheon is, and I have no interest in knowing. Post #11 by wolf made my eyes glaze over (no offense). To me, if I wanted to learn special rituals and phrases, I'd just join a Catholic Church. There is no difference to me between the desire to be identified as a "Wiccan" or a "Pagan" or a "Southern Baptist" or a whatever. It all seems contrived and overly specific, and I don't think that's where it's at, for me. I don't want to get bogged down in the mechanics of it all, and lose the point. There is a baseline of core beliefs that I hold true, and beyond that, I would just feel like I was playing make-believe Church.

When you kick people in the head please don't add insult to injury by throwing two copper pennys at them! heh heh

Originally Posted by Flint

Different strokes for different folks, you know. I think it's great when people find something that works for them, and as long as it isn't harmful to others, go for it. I'm right there with you, in spirit. I just feel awkward using the lingo.

and ummm why is your statement dual in nature? You diss then you patronize. It's truly weird.