What attracts serial killers to church?

Flint · 08-03-2013, 01:52 PM

Or rapists, or whatever you call people that trap people in dungeons and rape and beat the shit out of them, etc.

We often find out later how they were avid churchgoers, from which people had assumed they were a good guy or something. But why? (Anyne can go to church and play the 'I go to church' game.) So effectively, this counts for nothing. Which calls into question--what is the value to anyone who is playing this 'church' game (for the same reason of 'qualifying' themselves as an upright citizen)? You're not proving anything to anybody.

But what I'm wondering...
Is this the reason that horrible monsterous humans are attracted to church--as a 'cover' which removes them from suspicion of their vile deeds?

Or--and would this be worse?--are they actually geting something out of it besides that? Does it make them feel better? Does it make them feel less responsible for their actions? Does it make them feel that they can avoid some punishment--which some part of them knows that they deserve?

Is it because sociopaths are interested in learning new ways of replacing tangible logic with invented realities, or learning new manipulation techniques, or learning new ways of getting people to place their trust in you for absolutely no discernible reason whatsoever?

Disclaimer (please read before blasting):
Of course, not everyobody who goes to church is a serial killer. And not every serial killer goes to church. But some of them do. That is the subject.

Sundae · 08-03-2013, 02:57 PM

I'll admit I have wondered the same.
The conclusion I reached (with no facts to back it up whatsoever) is that it is partly a game for them. They can sit and gloat amongst the truly pious, knowing that they have the same ability as the God that others genuinely believe in and worship.

That they choose not to prey on the flock is yet another aspect of their power.

Flint · 08-03-2013, 03:03 PM

Wow, sick shit. That all sounds feasible.

Flint · 08-03-2013, 03:07 PM

I've been listening to Death Metal, a lot of which is openly Satanic (to varying degrees of seriousness). You'd think that rather than condemning this type of music, the Church would at least appreciate its honesty. You can't say it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, it admits to being a wolf.

Lamplighter · 08-03-2013, 03:26 PM

Plus, it's is a place to go for forgiveness and/or bargaining about not doing it again, etc.

Flint · 08-03-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Plus, it's is a place to go for forgiveness and/or bargaining about not doing it again, etc.

This is a manifestation (one of) of my problem(s) with western church.

They will do it again. Because it's human nature that is driving their behavior--not arbitrary intervention by supernatural forces.

Once you separate our actions from internal causation, you give us ALL excuse to do ANYTHING with no personal lability.

Sundae · 08-03-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Once you separate our actions from internal causation, you give us ALL excuse to do ANYTHING with no personal lability.

Is lability being able to perform actions with female genitals?

Flint · 08-03-2013, 03:57 PM

Must be a Freudian's lip, as we know female genitalia are strictly disallowed--oops, there I go again--meant to say disavowed.

DanaC · 08-03-2013, 04:58 PM

I suspect as well that there are avenues for power and authority. Being respected and looked to as a pillar of that community. Plus, they may well have grown up within the church.

Old Bunyip · 08-03-2013, 05:55 PM

I've heard it said that going into a church doesn't make you a good person like going into a garage doesn't make you a car.

Clodfobble · 08-03-2013, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

This is a manifestation (one of) of my problem(s) with western church.

They will do it again. Because it's human nature that is driving their behavior--not arbitrary intervention by supernatural forces.

Once you separate our actions from internal causation, you give us ALL excuse to do ANYTHING with no personal lability.

There is a flip side to this, though. As an illustration, I know a really shitty little kid whose mom thinks that giving candy equals discipline. His teacher set up a reward system whereby if he got a "green day" all week, he got some prize on Friday. But the kid is smart and figured out that if he screws up on Monday, the rest of the week is irrelevant, so he stops trying as soon as he gets one "red day."

Many bad people on this planet think they've already got their red day and are beyond redemption. The only chance of getting them to even try being good is to convince them they can start over at any time. Does this also allow your average mid-level jerk to feel like they can keep cutting people off in traffic and always be forgiven? Maybe, but I don't think the mid-level guys are going to cut MORE people off because of this. They're rationalizing after the fact, not justifying before they decide to do it.

Flint · 08-03-2013, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

...
But the kid is smart and figured out that if he screws up on Monday, the rest of the week is irrelevant, so he stops trying as soon as he gets one "red day."

Many bad people on this planet think they've already got their red day and are beyond redemption. The only chance of getting them to even try being good is to convince them they can start over at any time.
...

I guess I keep making the mistake of perceptively framing the system as if it was intended to benefit thinking, reasoning adults--I forget how stupid and childish many people are and/or I don't want to assume this, and/or that this is the only thing which makes sense of the system.

I do this because I'm trying to counteract my known selection bias towards religion--infomred by my personal experiences, i.e. the religious people I have known have been stupid, childish, or former drug addicts who require an external force to control them, or manipulative sociopaths who seek a convenient forum for preying on the weak.

However, when confronted by churchgoers who do not fit these categories, I am mystified. In this way: I wish to ask, is there a meta-system within the main system (designed for childish idiots, as described above)--do the intelligent members of the church do a lot of winking and nodding while the rest of the drooling zombies nod and agree with whatever the guy with the loudest megaphone is saying?

I don't ask this from a place of complete naivete. I've spent many hours in church services and Bible studies, as a result of my playing in church bands. I've taken a lot of notes, and been fascinated with this for a long time.

I've just never been able to start an intelligent conversation with any of the people at any of the churches I've been to. It's basically impossible to converse with someone who has pre-defined areas which are not okay to talk about, and pre-defined opinions which are not okay to even entertain.

Maybe, Clodfobble, you can explain this to me? How can intelligent people stomach religion?

JBKlyde · 08-03-2013, 10:16 PM

I think it's the Power, there all on Spiritual Power Trips, and when they originally fall from grace, it's is because the Hand of God Smacked them down.. and when they try to get back up God just TKO's them, and once that happens you have to crawl back to church, and the Psychos Never Come Back.

Flint · 08-03-2013, 10:29 PM

That would be great, man, if it was that easy.

If a big man in the sky solved all of our problems, I would be totally on board with that.

(What choice would I have?)

JBKlyde · 08-04-2013, 01:00 AM

Do you not see the 50 stars on the America Flag?? ONE Nation Under what was that guys name again... GOD.

08-03-2013, 01:52 PM	#1
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	What attracts serial killers to church? Or rapists, or whatever you call people that trap people in dungeons and rape and beat the shit out of them, etc. We often find out later how they were avid churchgoers, from which people had assumed they were a good guy or something. But why? (Anyne can go to church and play the 'I go to church' game.) So effectively, this counts for nothing. Which calls into question--what is the value to anyone who is playing this 'church' game (for the same reason of 'qualifying' themselves as an upright citizen)? You're not proving anything to anybody. But what I'm wondering... Is this the reason that horrible monsterous humans are attracted to church--as a 'cover' which removes them from suspicion of their vile deeds? Or--and would this be worse?--are they actually geting something out of it besides that? Does it make them feel better? Does it make them feel less responsible for their actions? Does it make them feel that they can avoid some punishment--which some part of them knows that they deserve? Is it because sociopaths are interested in learning new ways of replacing tangible logic with invented realities, or learning new manipulation techniques, or learning new ways of getting people to place their trust in you for absolutely no discernible reason whatsoever? Disclaimer (please read before blasting): Of course, not everyobody who goes to church is a serial killer. And not every serial killer goes to church. But some of them do. That is the subject. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-03-2013, 02:57 PM	#2
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I'll admit I have wondered the same. The conclusion I reached (with no facts to back it up whatsoever) is that it is partly a game for them. They can sit and gloat amongst the truly pious, knowing that they have the same ability as the God that others genuinely believe in and worship. That they choose not to prey on the flock is yet another aspect of their power. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

08-03-2013, 03:03 PM	#3
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Wow, sick shit. That all sounds feasible. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-03-2013, 03:07 PM	#4
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I've been listening to Death Metal, a lot of which is openly Satanic (to varying degrees of seriousness). You'd think that rather than condemning this type of music, the Church would at least appreciate its honesty. You can't say it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, it admits to being a wolf. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-03-2013, 03:57 PM	#8
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Must be a Freudian's lip, as we know female genitalia are strictly disallowed--oops, there I go again--meant to say disavowed. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-03-2013, 03:26 PM	#5
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	Plus, it's is a place to go for forgiveness and/or bargaining about not doing it again, etc.

08-03-2013, 05:55 PM	#10
Old Bunyip Antagonistic Antagonist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: South Australia Posts: 22	I've heard it said that going into a church doesn't make you a good person like going into a garage doesn't make you a car. __________________ Love many. Trust few. Always paddle your own canoe

08-03-2013, 10:16 PM	#13
JBKlyde Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Encrypted Into an AmpitheaterWall Posts: 1,722	I think it's the Power, there all on Spiritual Power Trips, and when they originally fall from grace, it's is because the Hand of God Smacked them down.. and when they try to get back up God just TKO's them, and once that happens you have to crawl back to church, and the Psychos Never Come Back.

08-03-2013, 10:29 PM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	That would be great, man, if it was that easy. If a big man in the sky solved all of our problems, I would be totally on board with that. (What choice would I have?) __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-04-2013, 01:00 AM	#15
JBKlyde Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Encrypted Into an AmpitheaterWall Posts: 1,722	Do you not see the 50 stars on the America Flag?? ONE Nation Under what was that guys name again... GOD.

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