Hermaphrodites (again)

Pangloss62 · 10-09-2006, 02:05 PM

Why It's Gonna Take A Hermaphrodite
To Establish Equal Marriage Rights For Gay
Couples

I remember when I first broached this topic to a couple of friends, they kinda laughed and brushed it off as "It's just Pangloss being weird again." But I wasn't being weird, I was being dead serious. And after reading a letter submitted to the NYT Magazine this past Sunday, I'm happy to say that someone else "gets it." In response to an article I noted in a previous post (What If It's (Sort of) a Boy And (Sort of) a Girl?), the letter writer states:

"Why are we forced to declare that an intersex baby is either male or female, when it is often clear that the reality is somewhere solidly in between."

And concludes:

"As long as the discourse around gender identity continues to polarize the categories of male and female, will we not reach the understanding of the gray areas in between. Only when we re-frame our questions can we really begin to expect answers that make sense."

Let me lay it out for ya; it's really beautiful in its irrefutability:

1. Human hermaphrodites exist.

2. Hermaphrodites, also labeled "intersex," are chromosomally, gonodally, and in the most literal sense, sexually, ambiguous. Most important, they are BORN THAT WAY.

Hermaphrodites are the ONLY individuals who can confront the "marriage is between a man and a woman" crowd with both scientific and physical proof that some people are both and neither a man or a woman. What is the marriage purist to do when he sees a wedding announcement showing a picture of Pat Jones and Francis Barnes who to him appear to be two women? He confronts the situation and says "Our State does not allow same-sex marriage!" Then Pat says "I am both and neither a man or a woman. Look at my combination penis/vagina and you can see. I, sir, am a hermaphrodite, and a proud one at that. Am I to assume that your State will not let me marry ANYONE?" If I attempt to marry a man, you will say I'm a man. If I attempt to marry a woman, you will say I'm a woman. Since I am neither and both, I can marry whomever I wish, and no law can stop me."

You see, the whole argument against same-sex marriage is contingent on the fact that there are only two sexes, male and female. The people against it feel empowered by the "fact" that everyone knows one is either a man or a woman, and that those who choose to marry someone of the same sex are making a "lifestyle" choice. Who but a hermaphrodite can actually say with self-assurance "Not only did I have no choice regarding my sexual identity, I remain both and neither a man or a woman. Look at my combination vagina/penis!"?

The bold hermaphrodite who applies for a marriage license has a built-in defense (offense) that will force the hand of the gay-marriage opponents. They will have to judge (without success) that the hermaphrodite is one or the other, male or female. Yes, it would be uncomfortable, and the hearing would have to be censored as the opponents examined the ambiguous genitalia of the hermaphrodite, but it would likely conclude that the intersex person was just that, both and neither a man or a woman. The gay marriage opponents would then have to either completely exclude ALL hermaphrodites from marrying or allow them to marry whom they choose. The rest "logically" follows.

But since when did those against gay marriage use logic?

Flint · 10-09-2006, 02:17 PM

Should hermaphrodites be allowed to marry?

Is a hermaphrodite marriage legal?

Pangloss62 · 10-10-2006, 07:44 AM

Thanks for the links, Flint.

I think I'm all hermaphrodited out now.

Flint · 10-11-2006, 09:53 AM

another link

10-09-2006, 02:05 PM	#1
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Hermaphrodites (again) Why It's Gonna Take A Hermaphrodite To Establish Equal Marriage Rights For Gay Couples I remember when I first broached this topic to a couple of friends, they kinda laughed and brushed it off as "It's just Pangloss being weird again." But I wasn't being weird, I was being dead serious. And after reading a letter submitted to the NYT Magazine this past Sunday, I'm happy to say that someone else "gets it." In response to an article I noted in a previous post (What If It's (Sort of) a Boy And (Sort of) a Girl?), the letter writer states: "Why are we forced to declare that an intersex baby is either male or female, when it is often clear that the reality is somewhere solidly in between." And concludes: "As long as the discourse around gender identity continues to polarize the categories of male and female, will we not reach the understanding of the gray areas in between. Only when we re-frame our questions can we really begin to expect answers that make sense." Let me lay it out for ya; it's really beautiful in its irrefutability: 1. Human hermaphrodites exist. 2. Hermaphrodites, also labeled "intersex," are chromosomally, gonodally, and in the most literal sense, sexually, ambiguous. Most important, they are BORN THAT WAY. Hermaphrodites are the ONLY individuals who can confront the "marriage is between a man and a woman" crowd with both scientific and physical proof that some people are both and neither a man or a woman. What is the marriage purist to do when he sees a wedding announcement showing a picture of Pat Jones and Francis Barnes who to him appear to be two women? He confronts the situation and says "Our State does not allow same-sex marriage!" Then Pat says "I am both and neither a man or a woman. Look at my combination penis/vagina and you can see. I, sir, am a hermaphrodite, and a proud one at that. Am I to assume that your State will not let me marry ANYONE?" If I attempt to marry a man, you will say I'm a man. If I attempt to marry a woman, you will say I'm a woman. Since I am neither and both, I can marry whomever I wish, and no law can stop me." You see, the whole argument against same-sex marriage is contingent on the fact that there are only two sexes, male and female. The people against it feel empowered by the "fact" that everyone knows one is either a man or a woman, and that those who choose to marry someone of the same sex are making a "lifestyle" choice. Who but a hermaphrodite can actually say with self-assurance "Not only did I have no choice regarding my sexual identity, I remain both and neither a man or a woman. Look at my combination vagina/penis!"? The bold hermaphrodite who applies for a marriage license has a built-in defense (offense) that will force the hand of the gay-marriage opponents. They will have to judge (without success) that the hermaphrodite is one or the other, male or female. Yes, it would be uncomfortable, and the hearing would have to be censored as the opponents examined the ambiguous genitalia of the hermaphrodite, but it would likely conclude that the intersex person was just that, both and neither a man or a woman. The gay marriage opponents would then have to either completely exclude ALL hermaphrodites from marrying or allow them to marry whom they choose. The rest "logically" follows. But since when did those against gay marriage use logic? __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

10-09-2006, 02:17 PM	#2
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Interesting topic. Here are some other threads: Should hermaphrodites be allowed to marry? Is a hermaphrodite marriage legal? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-10-2006, 07:44 AM	#3
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Linkage Thanks for the links, Flint. I think I'm all hermaphrodited out now. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

10-11-2006, 09:53 AM	#4
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	dude... another link __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

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