PTSD

Shawnee123 · 06-15-2007, 08:59 AM

Does anyone know if someone who has recently experienced trauma can start stuttering?

I'm so worried. My dad's work friend was killed on the job Wednesday, right in front of my dad. They were running heavy equipment, and apparently the friend stepped off his dozer and it was still running and he was run over. He was killed instantly. My dad witnessed this.

He flew home last night, and is with my mom right now. He will be playing golf with my brothers this afternoon and working on a contraption he is making for my nieces (it's a water balloon thingy.) So, I know it will take some time for him to feel better.

I just called him, and he's really stuttering. My dad never stuttered. My dad is a very strong person. I love him so much and I'm worried about him.

Has anyone heard of anything like this? I'm sitting here at work and I can't stop crying and I just don't know what to do.

Griff · 06-15-2007, 09:07 AM

That was a terrible thing to see especially in the context of work. He should talk to someone with some training in this sort of thing. Does he have a clergyman he can talk to or maybe get him to a professional? When wolf sees this maybe she could point you in the right direction.

Shawnee123 · 06-15-2007, 09:11 AM

They had a grief counselor visit him and the other people who were on the jobsite. I hope he has plans to follow up. My dad is not a therapy type, but I hope he sees that he may need to do this.

Thanks Griff.

Griff · 06-15-2007, 09:15 AM

Try to make sure he knows this is a special case, it doesn't say anything about his mental toughness.

Flint · 06-15-2007, 09:17 AM

I'm seriously not saying this to be funny, but on this episode of 21 Jumpstreet... ya rly ...this cop (Peter Deluise) had to kill somebody in the line of duty, so the cop shrink said he had to go hold crack babies at the hospital. Serisouly, after having witnessed death, he had to spend some time doing something life-affirming. It sounded like a good idea, I don't know if that's a real thing or not.

Shawnee123 · 06-15-2007, 09:20 AM

I know what joy he gets out of my nieces. It might sound silly, but I think it will be life affirming to him to get the water balloon contraption done and watch the fun the girls will have with it. I hope that helps, too.

Flint · 06-15-2007, 09:22 AM

Yeah, that right there sounds like just what the doctor ordered.

lizzymahoney · 06-15-2007, 11:33 AM

Shawnee, the stuttering is just as you think: a response to the trauma. No matter what your dad appears to be doing, he's still moving through this. The stuttering will almost certainly fade with time.

Some PTSD things are hard to shake. This particular affect in someone who hasn't had it before is something he'll overcome.

Shawnee123 · 06-15-2007, 11:40 AM

Thank you lizzy, I appreciate your response. I appreciate the nice people here.

(btw, lizzy, I love your user title)

Cloud · 06-15-2007, 11:53 AM

wow, that's just horrible. I have no experience with PTSD, but I hope things get better for your dad.

P.S. Sex is also life affirming, but I guess you can't very well suggest that to him, can ya?

Shawnee123 · 06-15-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

P.S. Sex is also life affirming, but I guess you can't very well suggest that to him, can ya?

heheheee...no, but I'll pass the suggestion on to mom!

Shawnee123 · 06-15-2007, 12:41 PM

I talked to the resident licensed counselor here at work. She said it is acute ptsd, and suggested he go ahead and see someone just to kind of "debrief." I talked to my mom and she said they are going to talk about that, but right now she just wants him to be home and enjoy his family. My 17 year old nephew stopped by today to help plan the balloon thingy, and he is now playing golf with my two brothers (and it's a gorgeous day.)

I don't know if he will want to go back to work, at least not to that jobsite (he travels all around for his job, this was in CA.) He may go ahead with his plans to retire, which he had decided to hold off on.

I know he will have a good father's day, but I am sure in the back of his mind will be his buddy, who has 5 grown children. That's so sad, and my heart aches for these people I don't even know.

Sundae · 06-15-2007, 01:06 PM

Shawnee, try not to worry too much.
I know you love your Dad very much, but as you say he is a strong man, has your Mum to support him and is going to get professional help.

Just carry on loving him and he will sort himself out as best he can.

Try not to get yourself too upset about it. Although I know what you mean - I feel for all involved too and I don't know anyone except you!

Shawnee123 · 06-15-2007, 01:19 PM

Thanks sweetie. I just hate to see the people I love in pain, and wish I could take it all away and feel it for them, so they don't have to. I know he will be alright, and he's been through rough stuff before. As you know, SG, we are a very close family. I'm very lucky that way.

wolf · 06-15-2007, 01:32 PM

Your resident licensed counsellor is probably a nice person, but doesn't know a lot about dealing with traumatic stress ...

First off, your dad does not have PTSD, or even "acute" PTSD (there's no such thing as acute PTSD, incidentally). Post Traumatic Stress Disorder develops over a period of months. To be classified as a disorder there have to be significant impairments in a person's ability to function.

Don't decide your dad is sicker than he is.

He's not mentally ill.

He's seen some bad shit.

There's no need to pathologize him.

Your dad is experiencing the NORMAL reactions of a NORMAL person when exposed to an ABNORMAL situation.

In the first 24-48 hours, the reactions are just starting to set in. There's a tendency to jump right in and think that things need to be addressed in a particular way, like bringing in the grief counsellor.

Grief counsellors are great, but grief is something you're not even capable of dealing with in the first 24-48 hours. There's a lot of shock, emotions aren't even really processed or sorted out. Head for the grief counsellor in a couple of weeks if there are still some issues.

The licensed counsellor where you are probably knows or heard a little bit about something called "CISM" or Critical Incident Stress Management. That's where the term "debriefing" is used a lot ... but people also misuse that term, leading to a lot of confusion about what is or isn't CISM and whether CISM is useful or harmful. There's a lot of literature on that, so I'll let that discussion go for right now.

I am a Mitchell Model CISM trained debriefer and have been active on a Critical Incident Stress Management Team for 12 years. One of the more important pieces of the process right now relates to eduction ... about normalizing the experience for your dad, finding out what reactions he is having, what he's noticing as changes in himself, or that others notice in him ... you mentioned stuttering. He may have stuttered when he was younger and has been in very strict control of that ... but now, he's overwhelmed and strategies he's used in the past aren't working. He could be irritable, sleepless, less or more hungry, an increase in smoking or drinking wouldn't be unusual.

I would suggest that your dad talk to someone ... not a therapist, though, not at this point. Remember that whole "you're normal" focus? Critical Incident Stress Management Debriefing is a peer driven process. If there isn't someone in your dad's company that's trained, there may be someone else available, or even the CISM team that serves Emergency Services Personnel in that community might be called upon for this kind of industrial accident ... I know that we've gone out and done that kind of defusing and debriefing. If you want to let me know where your dad is, I can look into resources for him (I have them worldwide, not just in the U.S. This is an internationally utilized process).

06-15-2007, 08:59 AM	#1
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	PTSD Does anyone know if someone who has recently experienced trauma can start stuttering? I'm so worried. My dad's work friend was killed on the job Wednesday, right in front of my dad. They were running heavy equipment, and apparently the friend stepped off his dozer and it was still running and he was run over. He was killed instantly. My dad witnessed this. He flew home last night, and is with my mom right now. He will be playing golf with my brothers this afternoon and working on a contraption he is making for my nieces (it's a water balloon thingy.) So, I know it will take some time for him to feel better. I just called him, and he's really stuttering. My dad never stuttered. My dad is a very strong person. I love him so much and I'm worried about him. Has anyone heard of anything like this? I'm sitting here at work and I can't stop crying and I just don't know what to do. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-15-2007, 09:07 AM	#2
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	That was a terrible thing to see especially in the context of work. He should talk to someone with some training in this sort of thing. Does he have a clergyman he can talk to or maybe get him to a professional? When wolf sees this maybe she could point you in the right direction. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

06-15-2007, 09:11 AM	#3
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	They had a grief counselor visit him and the other people who were on the jobsite. I hope he has plans to follow up. My dad is not a therapy type, but I hope he sees that he may need to do this. Thanks Griff. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-15-2007, 09:15 AM	#4
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Try to make sure he knows this is a special case, it doesn't say anything about his mental toughness. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

06-15-2007, 09:17 AM	#5
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I'm seriously not saying this to be funny, but on this episode of 21 Jumpstreet... ya rly ...this cop (Peter Deluise) had to kill somebody in the line of duty, so the cop shrink said he had to go hold crack babies at the hospital. Serisouly, after having witnessed death, he had to spend some time doing something life-affirming. It sounded like a good idea, I don't know if that's a real thing or not. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

06-15-2007, 09:20 AM	#6
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I know what joy he gets out of my nieces. It might sound silly, but I think it will be life affirming to him to get the water balloon contraption done and watch the fun the girls will have with it. I hope that helps, too. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-15-2007, 09:22 AM	#7
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Yeah, that right there sounds like just what the doctor ordered. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

06-15-2007, 11:33 AM	#8
lizzymahoney Major Inhabitant Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 124	Shawnee, the stuttering is just as you think: a response to the trauma. No matter what your dad appears to be doing, he's still moving through this. The stuttering will almost certainly fade with time. Some PTSD things are hard to shake. This particular affect in someone who hasn't had it before is something he'll overcome.

06-15-2007, 11:40 AM	#9
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Thank you lizzy, I appreciate your response. I appreciate the nice people here. (btw, lizzy, I love your user title) __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-15-2007, 11:53 AM	#10
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	wow, that's just horrible. I have no experience with PTSD, but I hope things get better for your dad. P.S. Sex is also life affirming, but I guess you can't very well suggest that to him, can ya? __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

06-15-2007, 12:41 PM	#12
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I talked to the resident licensed counselor here at work. She said it is acute ptsd, and suggested he go ahead and see someone just to kind of "debrief." I talked to my mom and she said they are going to talk about that, but right now she just wants him to be home and enjoy his family. My 17 year old nephew stopped by today to help plan the balloon thingy, and he is now playing golf with my two brothers (and it's a gorgeous day.) I don't know if he will want to go back to work, at least not to that jobsite (he travels all around for his job, this was in CA.) He may go ahead with his plans to retire, which he had decided to hold off on. I know he will have a good father's day, but I am sure in the back of his mind will be his buddy, who has 5 grown children. That's so sad, and my heart aches for these people I don't even know. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-15-2007, 01:06 PM	#13
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Shawnee, try not to worry too much. I know you love your Dad very much, but as you say he is a strong man, has your Mum to support him and is going to get professional help. Just carry on loving him and he will sort himself out as best he can. Try not to get yourself too upset about it. Although I know what you mean - I feel for all involved too and I don't know anyone except you! __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

06-15-2007, 01:19 PM	#14
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Thanks sweetie. I just hate to see the people I love in pain, and wish I could take it all away and feel it for them, so they don't have to. I know he will be alright, and he's been through rough stuff before. As you know, SG, we are a very close family. I'm very lucky that way. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-15-2007, 01:32 PM	#15
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Your resident licensed counsellor is probably a nice person, but doesn't know a lot about dealing with traumatic stress ... First off, your dad does not have PTSD, or even "acute" PTSD (there's no such thing as acute PTSD, incidentally). Post Traumatic Stress Disorder develops over a period of months. To be classified as a disorder there have to be significant impairments in a person's ability to function. Don't decide your dad is sicker than he is. He's not mentally ill. He's seen some bad shit. There's no need to pathologize him. Your dad is experiencing the NORMAL reactions of a NORMAL person when exposed to an ABNORMAL situation. In the first 24-48 hours, the reactions are just starting to set in. There's a tendency to jump right in and think that things need to be addressed in a particular way, like bringing in the grief counsellor. Grief counsellors are great, but grief is something you're not even capable of dealing with in the first 24-48 hours. There's a lot of shock, emotions aren't even really processed or sorted out. Head for the grief counsellor in a couple of weeks if there are still some issues. The licensed counsellor where you are probably knows or heard a little bit about something called "CISM" or Critical Incident Stress Management. That's where the term "debriefing" is used a lot ... but people also misuse that term, leading to a lot of confusion about what is or isn't CISM and whether CISM is useful or harmful. There's a lot of literature on that, so I'll let that discussion go for right now. I am a Mitchell Model CISM trained debriefer and have been active on a Critical Incident Stress Management Team for 12 years. One of the more important pieces of the process right now relates to eduction ... about normalizing the experience for your dad, finding out what reactions he is having, what he's noticing as changes in himself, or that others notice in him ... you mentioned stuttering. He may have stuttered when he was younger and has been in very strict control of that ... but now, he's overwhelmed and strategies he's used in the past aren't working. He could be irritable, sleepless, less or more hungry, an increase in smoking or drinking wouldn't be unusual. I would suggest that your dad talk to someone ... not a therapist, though, not at this point. Remember that whole "you're normal" focus? Critical Incident Stress Management Debriefing is a peer driven process. If there isn't someone in your dad's company that's trained, there may be someone else available, or even the CISM team that serves Emergency Services Personnel in that community might be called upon for this kind of industrial accident ... I know that we've gone out and done that kind of defusing and debriefing. If you want to let me know where your dad is, I can look into resources for him (I have them worldwide, not just in the U.S. This is an internationally utilized process). __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

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