Divorce

[DanaC]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, or dense, but I really don't understand what you're going on about? I get the words, but... :shakes head: I don't understand the changes stuff you described. Are you willing to try to explain it again?

OKay. When my ex and I first met, some of the things I loved about him were: his intensity, his passion, his mercurial changeability, his laugh, the fact that he didn't care what other people thought, his laugh.

When I fell out of love with him, when the relationship was on the rocks and we were still living together, some of the things that drove me mad about him were: his intensity, his temper (note, this no longer looked like passion to me), his unpredictability, his inability to tailor his actions/attitude to the company we were in, thereby embarrassing the fuck out of me on a regular basis, his laugh.

At the same time, J, was beginning to be annoyed by things he used to like in me.

He had not changed utterly. He had grown-up a little and so had I, and the things that had been the basis of much of my attraction to him, after 12 years had become the things that most annoyed me and vice versa.

Talking to my friend D a few days ago about his divorce, he said "The things that first attract us, later repel: she hates me, man. She hates everything about me. The way I walk, the way I laugh, my sense of humour, my mannerisms. All the stuff that she used to like."

Now, I am not suggesting that she hates you. D's divorce was a fairly extreme case (my own opinion is his ex-wife's a full blown mentalist, but that's just my opinion and as his friend I am biased), but it illustrates a common phenomenon. My ex and I, by the way, are very good friends and I love him dearly. My other friend is now with him and deeply in love...many of the same things I found attractive in J, she is now drawn to 17 years later. I didn't fall out of love because I didn't like those character traits and mannerisms: I fell out of love therefore I no longer liked those traits and mannerisms.

I think my point is, that just because she tells you the things that drive her mad (e.g the lack of emotional honesty/communication I think you mentioned at one stage) are the problem...they may not be. The problem from her perspective may not be those things, they may just be a manifestation of a change in the state of her feelings for you. If that's the case, then 'fixing' those things in yourself would not provide a solution.

You'e the only one here that really knows the situation Deuce. All I can do is read what you post, apply it to my own experience of the world and offer advice and insights if I feel I am able. Your situation may not fit that experience of the world, or it may. You're the only one who knows.

[Cicero]

He is not allowed to see her whether she allowed it or not. Don't you guys get that? The State is not allowing it for both parties. The State enforces these orders for a reason. It is as black and white as it sounds. She is violating her own restraining order and can get in trouble with the state as well. He needs proof that she has violated the restraining order so when she uses his contact as a negotiating point he has some self-protection. He needs to tell his attorney about her contact.

They do hand out restrainig orders willy-nilly. I've seen it. I saw a report that said the guy was "escalating" during an arguement. Yes escalating can get you a restraining order. He just found out that she had been having an affair for quite some time. I would "escalate" too. The report was empty outside of escalating. I'm escalating right now.

My point is....either you are a threat or you're not. You can't have it both ways because the state is in charge of the restraining order. Not you or your wife. Ask your attorney. You both are in violation. Now you both can get in trouble. If she is caught- the first thing she is going to do is blame it on you.

Follow the advice of your attorney.

Just follow his/her advice for now and you guys can hash things out later. You are at great risk.

I have tons of compassion for your situation, but be patient and live out the order or you could possibly see the inside of a cell and not get to see or talk to anybody except for your bunk-mate.

[limey]

Thinking of you, Deuce.

[Deuce]

Thanks. That makes one.

[limey]

Two, at least, I hope. I hope you're thinking of you, too.
[hug]

[DanaC]

Hey I'm thinking of you too! Actually that's not quite true. I was thinking of you a couple of days ago and wondering how you were getting on (which was quite bad because I was sitting on Scrutiny Committee at the time) and that led me to thinking about my parents' divorce some twenty two years ago, and in particular wondering what my Dad was feeling at the time and whether or not I gave enough attention to where he was at back then...so actually, it would be more proper for me to say I was thinking of me :P

I hope you're feeling okay (as okay as is possible in the circumstances) and I want to offer you advice from the perspective of the child of divorcing parents.

It is important that you show your children that you're still the same Dad, regardless of whether you share a house or are married to their mother. That's already been talked about in this thread and I know you are doing exactly that. What may be less obvious (unless it is obvious to others, I don't know) is the important balancing act that you need to achieve between making sure they know you love them deeply, and making sure they know that you can cope without living as a family unit.

I have very few memories of the day we actually left. Mum and Dad had been living in the same house but more or less totally estranged having begun the separation proceedings (you had to separate for one year before you could apply for divorce back then) almost a year earlier. Things were tense but 'civilised' and in many ways they did it textbook (my brother and I involved in the discussions of custody and basically given the choice, very careful to ensure we didn't blame oursellves etc). The key memory for me was when Dad brought me a cup of tea whilst I was standing in my room packing my bag. We said nothing about what was going on, it was like nothing was happening. As he went down the stairs he stopped for a moment and looked up through the bannister and the open doorway and then continued on his way. Up til then I had felt this strange mix of excitement (moving house is exciting, change is exciting when you are 12) and sorrow. But when I looked at dad I saw absolute understanding of what was happening and a deal of pain. All of a sudden the reality of what was happening struck me...we were leaving him behind.

The moment passed, we all got through it and though Dad has never been one for sharing his emotions (or indeed showing it in ways people who don't know him might recognise:P) he never left me in any doubt that he was still my dad and loved me. But...and this is why the long tale, that feeling of having left him behind, never quite shook away. It's still there and I am now 35.

A lot of that is due to the way my dad is. But much of it is due to the fact that Dad didn't seem(to me when I was 13)like he would be able to be happy at some future point.

Hence the balancing act. It's a toughie...don't try to hide your pain totally, it just looks like hidden depths of pain and they'll be able to imagine worse than you can feel. At the same time, don't overwhelm them with that pain...they need to be able to feel that at some point their dad may be happy, that them and their mum leaving the house isn't leaving you behind in a dark and unhappy place from which you can't escape. Like I say, it's a balancing act. Make sure they know you love them, but that them moving out isn't something that will sink you. Don't try and pretend that you are happy or that everything is normal, because if they're older kids especially, they'll feel you're shutting them out (imo) but make sure they understand that this is because of the stressful situation and upsetting nature of such a life change, and that as the situation moves on, you'll all be moving with it and life will eventualy reach aneven keel and nobody will be left behind. This isn't stuff you can tell them, it's what they need to experience from you.


Don't know if that's helpful, interesting, useless or upsetting. I hope not the latter two

[Deuce]

everything has been ground away. ever see a machine seize up? the parts that rub against one another, for lack of lubrication, or cooling, or clearance, or bearings, or some such.... those surfaces in the absence of any help, heat up. they deform, they change so that the normal function is gone.

all the places where we touch are seized up. the normal flow of lubrication has been stopped; there is no compassion, no benefit of the doubt, no love. the normal methods of cooling are gone; there is no space, no relief. the normal things that act as bearings are missing; there is no human touch, no intimacy, no sharing.

it is all shrieking screeching sparking mess, dangerously incandescent. an expensive non functional wreck.

sad because the redline was cruelly and deliberately ignored. all the warning signs disregarded. purposefully broken.

goddammit.

[limey]

It will probably seem lame of me to chime in here with "Hang in there, Deuce, it will get better", but it will. I sincerely wish you the strength to get through these bad times to the better ones ahead.

[LabRat]

Deuce, I'd like to suggest giving this book some time. Life After Loss: A Practical Guide to Renewing Your Life After Experiencing Major Loss
by Bob Deits

The semester after my father died I took a death and dying class in college. This was one of the required textbooks. It's about grief, (from different sources, such as loss of a parent to loss of a job, including divorce) and working through it. Mine is actually an older edition. I'm sure not much has changed in the new one, except for updating of resources. There are probably divorce specific books out there, but I don't have any experience with those. Maybe someone else has?

I know you are feeling very alone, when you are up to it try to find some grief groups, or divorce groups where you can talk to people. Taking the class helped me immensely, when there was no one else I knew who was going through what I was to talk to.

[xoxoxoBruce]

.

[Deuce]

clever.

mean though.

I'm not mean. I'm not in the desert. And I'm not alone. We're bound together, by marriage and by children. My wife, mother of my children, is not a bitch. I care about her, I love her. My heart is broken, and probably my brain too. But there's no reason, certainly nothing to be gained, by being cruel and mean. You're wrong.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Deuce

It's happening. Time is slowing down, I can see where we're headed and I feel powerless to change the inevitable result: a terrible crash, horrible carnage. Years in the making, my self delusion finally all ground away.

Apparently, it's not all ground away.

The pain of being unloved now exceeds the numbing and dumbing power of denial. I cannot decide which I miss more, being loved by others or being deluded by myself. Probably delusion, since that pain is fresher by far; I can't remember the feeling of being loved.

The one that loves the least, is always in control. It's not you.