Israel has opened the gates of Hell

[Rhianne]

I believe there is an election coming up soon in Israel.

Edit: 22nd January

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by glatt

NPR was saying that Hamas has been launching these rockets for years, and Israel did little, but now, for some reason, it's pummeling Gaza. What changed?

I think the number of rockets being fired by Hamas increased dramatically in the past two weeks but I'm not 100% sure. The election is coming up soon but I've heard Netanyahu has a comfortable lead so I don't know if he is doing a "rally behind the flag" thing.

And how will they define victory? It's like when they went into Lebanon a couple years ago and did not remove Hezbollah from power, so even though they won every battle, Hezbollah was considered the winner since they weren't completely defeated. What will happen when Israel stops the offensive, and Hamas is still in power and still lobs occasional rockets at Israel? Is that a net loss for Israel?

Agreed. I don't think Israel can win this.

[Big Sarge]

Am I the only one for crushing Hamas and driving tem into the sea?? Note, I am referencing Hamas and not the Palestinian civilians

[Lamplighter]

Am I the only one for crushing Hamas and driving them into the sea??
Note, I am referencing Hamas and not the Palestinian civilians

Sarge, my first reaction to your question was "I hope so"

If Israel were white as the driven snow in their relationships with their neighbors, your idea might have value.
But since the days of Jimmy Carter's presidency, it's not been anything less than an ultraconservative, militaristic tyrannt.

The US has routinely pledged (ultimate) support for Israel, so
their real danger is much less than their politics can warrant.

The damages inflicted on Israel are minuscule, both in numbers of military, or civilians killed or wounded
and in physical damage to structures, etc. compared with what Israel has done to it's neighbors.

Maybe military types get their jollies out of this, but I don't.
This latest escalation was driven by Israli's actions shown here...

The Israel Defense Forces didn’t just kill Hamas military leader Ahmed al-Jabari
on Wednesday as he was driving his car down the street in Gaza.
They killed him and then instantly posted the strike to YouTube.
Then they tweeted a warning to all of Jabari’s comrades:
“We recommend that no Hamas operatives, whether low level or senior leaders,
show their faces above ground in the days ahead.”

I know this is not a popular position in the US, so...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

...And how will they define victory? It's like when they went into Lebanon a couple years ago and did not remove Hezbollah from power, so even though they won every battle, Hezbollah was considered the winner since they weren't completely defeated...

Also to be considered is the role of the western media in turning American military victories into propaganda victories for the Communists, in enabling them to "win" the war, which war itself was tragic for both sides.

Underlying the importance of such is the often quoted exchange between Colonel Harry G. Summers, Jr. and his North Vietnamese counterpart, Colonel Tu. During one of his liaison trips to Hanoi, Colonel Harry told Tu, "You know, you never beat us on the battlefield," Colonel Tu responded, "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant."

Spin, spin, spin, victory is in the mind of the beholder.

[Big Sarge]

I just don't get it. How can anyone favor Hamas, an Iranian tied terrorist group whose core tenets are based upon genocide?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Because the fucking world is not black and white.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

I just don't get it. How can anyone favor Hamas, an Iranian tied terrorist group whose core tenets are based upon genocide?

It depends upon your POV...

From Wikipedia:

Hamas (Arabic: حماس‎ Ḥamās, "enthusiasm", an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, "Islamic Resistance Movement")
is the Palestinian Sunni Islamic or Islamist[5] political party[neutrality is disputed] that governs the Gaza Strip.

Hamas has a military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.[6]

Since June 2007 Hamas has governed the Gaza portion of the Palestinian Territories,
after it won a majority of seats in the Palestinian Parliament in the January 2006
Palestinian parliamentary elections[7] and then defeated the Fatah political organization
in a series of violent clashes.

Israel, the United States,[8] Canada,[9] the European Union,[10][11] and Japan classify Hamas
as a terrorist organization,[12][13] while Arab nations, Russia,[14] and Turkey[15] do not.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Am I the only one for crushing Hamas and driving tem into the sea?? Note, I am referencing Hamas and not the Palestinian civilians

The problem is that there is no way of separating Hamas from the Palestinian civilians. Hamas isn't just a military organization, it is a well-rounded political organization that has a strong military wing. That makes it difficult to separate the military aspect of Hamas with the the political aspects, schools, hospititals, police force, etc., which are positive.

I just don't get it. How can anyone favor Hamas, an Iranian tied terrorist group whose core tenets are based upon genocide?

My problem is with extremists on both sides (Israel and Palestine). As long as those assholes are in control, it will only lead to more and more deaths and a smaller chance of peace. The fact that Abbas has no control over the situation speaks for itself.

[Spexxvet]

Can you imagine what would happen if a neighboring nation fired rockets onto our soil?

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Am I the only one for crushing Hamas and driving tem into the sea?? Note, I am referencing Hamas and not the Palestinian civilians

How are you going to do that without harming the civilians? Or how will you make them understand the ones who died are Necessary Losses?

[glatt]

It's kind of like a foreign country trying to kill all the Republicans in the US.

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Because the fucking world is not black and white.

I know it isn't. Hamas calls for genocide. I thought most of us were opposed to ethnic cleansing. If your next door neighbor tells you he is going to kill your family and then shoots at your house, would you just sit back? Even if other neighbors said it was none of their business, would you say "Oh, well"?

Perhaps another perspective would be: If you heard the KKK say they were going to kill all of the African - Americans, would you let them? Would you sit back if a group of white males were throwing stones at a black male, would you tell the B/M that he shouldn't defend himself?

I don't understand why you would endorse a group whose mission is to destroy others based upon religion or race.

[glatt]

Has anyone here endorsed Hamas?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

I know it isn't. Hamas calls for genocide. I thought most of us were opposed to ethnic cleansing. If your next door neighbor tells you he is going to kill your family and then shoots at your house, would you just sit back? Even if other neighbors said it was none of their business, would you say "Oh, well"?

Many accuse Israel of doing the exact same thing...

The point is that extremists exist in both Hamas and Israel that actually do want to wipe out the other side. However, these people are not the majority (it seems) and the views of these larger organizations (Hamas and Israel) can not be lumped in with those extremist views.

This is a situation where side A "reacts" violently to an action by side B. This "reaction" causes extremists in side B to gain power and then they will "react" to the initial "reaction", attacking side A. This reinforces the power of the extremists on side A, creating a self-perpetuating downward spiral. As long as this back and forth keeps going, neither side is willing or able to compromise. That is why this situation is extremely difficult to solve.