Evolutionary Science-v- Creationism - Page 28

richlevy · 08-03-2005, 07:49 PM

There is no proof for the the existence of God. That's why they call it faith. Science deals with facts or theories for which there is evidence. Saying that there might be a creator based on the unsubstantiated beliefs of individuals has no place in a science class.

I heard the end of a very bad debate on O'Reilly. They picked some poor Phd with no debating skills who by comparison made Nixon's performance in the Kennedy debate look like a screaming success. I swear that they picked the guy because O'Reilly could roll right over him.

BigV · 08-03-2005, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

--snip--The problems only arise when people try to put religious Creation stories into a science class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy

--snip--Science deals with facts or theories for which there is evidence. Saying that there might be a creator based on the unsubstantiated beliefs of individuals has no place in a science class.

Well put, gentlemen.

This is exactly my single greatest complaint about this administration in particular. It is the bald, brass, naked abuse of power expressed by choosing an idea and then calling it something else. Compassionate Conservatism. The Clean Skies Act. The Global War On Terror.

They choose what they want to do (as they should, to the winners the spoils), but then call it the very opposite sometimes! The manipulative hypocrisy of this style of leadership galls me, infuriates me. Intelligent design is a set of ideas that has it's own merits and flaws. But. It is **NOT** science. Calling it science, demanding in the name of fairness, in the spirit of discovery, that it be considered with equal weight, as though it were scientific, is sooooo wrong I am at a loss to articulate it.

What kind of argument flaw/style is this example: "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" One that starts with false premises and restricts the choices to a list where they're mutually exclusive (yes versus no) and all wrong? That's how I feel when lured into a discussion about ID as an alternative scientific theory. It's an invalid question. Why not teach it in math class? Why not teach it in P.E.? It has the same relevance. But those comparisons don't reflect the same authority as "ID is competitve with Evolution."

Aaarrrrgh!

Kagen4o4 · 08-03-2005, 08:51 PM

the origin of the universe is very simple. black holes exist in the universe yes? these are things that once you pass the event horizon, space and time reverse and the only future for matter after this point is the singularity in the centre (i wont go into the physics and mathematics but i can if you ask me to). no amount of energy can stop this. for this to exist there needs to be an opposite to a black hole. just like for negative there is positive and for matter there is antimatter, light and dark etc.... so there has to be something called a "white hole". these have not been found. but think about it. for a white hole to exist it would need to be something where the singularity can only exist in the past. starting to sound familiar? what is the only place in the universe where something has had the singularity exist only in the past?

the universe itself.

logic suggests that in order for black holes to exist there needs to be at least one white hole and the only possible outcome of this is to have a singularity at the beginning of time with matter that cannot return to this point. (if youre having trouble thinking of time having a zero point, just think of it like the absolute zero in temperature)

my point is there was no time before this and hence no chance for a god to decide to create the universe. the universe will either continue expanding forever or just come to a stop as it cannot return to the singularity.

Bullitt · 08-04-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

Well, he said it. What a maroon.

numerous google hits

Though I am a firm Christian, I would have to agree with you. By teaching Intelligent Design in the classroom, we would be endorsing that way of thinking not as merely a choice as part of your religion, or lack thereof, but as a brute undenyable fact. And forcing that upon children is wrong. Faith is a choice and the government should stay the hell out of that choice.

Kagen4o4 · 08-04-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Though I am a firm Christian, I would have to agree with you. By teaching Intelligent Design in the classroom, we would be endorsing that way of thinking not as merely a choice as part of your religion, or lack thereof, but as a brute undenyable fact. And forcing that upon children is wrong. Faith is a choice and the government should stay the hell out of that choice.

religion should stay the hell out of peoples choice too. it should be a right of passage of everyone that when they turn 16 they choose their own religion and not be thrown into one from just after birth

Clodfobble · 08-04-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagen404

it should be a right of passage of everyone that when they turn 16 they choose their own religion and not be thrown into one from just after birth

Sorry, I thought that's what 16-year-olds already did.

Urbane Guerrilla · 08-04-2005, 11:57 PM

Let us also cogitate on "Design" as evidenced: the design of the eye of the Chordata isn't at all the way an engineer would lay it out. The blood supply to the retina is between the light-sensitive cell array and the light it uses?? Developmental defects of the cornea leading to myopia being almost more common than not? The urethra goes through the prostate instead of around it? Sloppy-fit knee joints held together by ligamental straps and nothing much else? And how 'bout that vermiform appendix?

Dr. Pangloss might opine that this is all to cause men to invent better surgery. But then, Pangloss' views on spectacles is too often noted to need repeating here.

Urbane Guerrilla · 08-05-2005, 12:01 AM

And it might help Kagen if he knew it's a rite of passage. Right of passage is more a thing of ships than of men, be they sixteen or older.

Homonym hell is an unnecessary embarrassment, for my money.

Kagen4o4 · 08-05-2005, 01:46 AM

it mite help UG if he new th@ the english language can b ripped to shreds and ppl still no what u r talking about.

you know it was the most embarrasing thing in my life to realise i typed "right" instead of "rite", thankyou for going so easy on me though and just pointing it out rather than shooting me down. its so nice to have clever, intelligent people like you around to point out our little grammatical mistakes now and then. i know everyone else appriciates all the good things people like you do in the world. once again, thanks. do you have an address that i can mail you a thankyou card and flowers, maybe some chocolates too? mmm it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing you'll be there to watch over me providing your free spell-checker service.

sorry, im still pissed off that i burnt my tongue on my coffee this morning.

Urbane Guerrilla · 08-06-2005, 01:27 AM

Homonym hell is still unnecessary.

The best spellchecker is your wetware. I turn mechanical spellcheckers off and keep my English to a near-Buckleyan standard -- WFB is the only general writer of my acquaintance who regularly can send me to the dictionary. In the words of the metaphor, the man's a rifle, with one helluvan ammunition wagon.

I've not yet heard of a spellchecker with the entire wordlist of the OED in it -- has anyone else? The usual 75K-wordlist spellchecker is too cramped for what I do when writing.

Kagen4o4 · 08-07-2005, 01:41 AM

my previous statement still stands, spelling is irrelevant if the meaning is understood. if someone doesnt understand what you are saying THEN spelling needs to be checked

Urbane Guerrilla · 08-18-2005, 07:57 PM

Well, then it's not English, is it? And spelling error can thoroughly scramble the meaning of a sentence. Those who insist upon its irrelevance insist upon muddy, substandard, subintellectual thinking.

There are better hills to die on than this one.

richlevy · 08-18-2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Those who insist upon its irrelevance insist upon muddy, substandard, subintellectual thinking.

And I thought you liked to hang out with Republicans.

Can you spell potatoe?

Kagen4o4 · 08-18-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Well, then it's not English, is it? And spelling error can thoroughly scramble the meaning of a sentence. Those who insist upon its irrelevance insist upon muddy, substandard, subintellectual thinking.

i know, ive read 1984. man that thing was pretty close considering it was written in 1949.

06-17-2007, 12:52 AM

08-03-2005, 07:49 PM	#406
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	There is no proof for the the existence of God. That's why they call it faith. Science deals with facts or theories for which there is evidence. Saying that there might be a creator based on the unsubstantiated beliefs of individuals has no place in a science class. I heard the end of a very bad debate on O'Reilly. They picked some poor Phd with no debating skills who by comparison made Nixon's performance in the Kennedy debate look like a screaming success. I swear that they picked the guy because O'Reilly could roll right over him. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

08-04-2005, 11:57 PM	#412
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Let us also cogitate on "Design" as evidenced: the design of the eye of the Chordata isn't at all the way an engineer would lay it out. The blood supply to the retina is between the light-sensitive cell array and the light it uses?? Developmental defects of the cornea leading to myopia being almost more common than not? The urethra goes through the prostate instead of around it? Sloppy-fit knee joints held together by ligamental straps and nothing much else? And how 'bout that vermiform appendix? Dr. Pangloss might opine that this is all to cause men to invent better surgery. But then, Pangloss' views on spectacles is too often noted to need repeating here. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

08-05-2005, 12:01 AM	#413
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	And it might help Kagen if he knew it's a rite of passage. Right of passage is more a thing of ships than of men, be they sixteen or older. Homonym hell is an unnecessary embarrassment, for my money. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

08-06-2005, 01:27 AM	#415
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Homonym hell is still unnecessary. The best spellchecker is your wetware. I turn mechanical spellcheckers off and keep my English to a near-Buckleyan standard -- WFB is the only general writer of my acquaintance who regularly can send me to the dictionary. In the words of the metaphor, the man's a rifle, with one helluvan ammunition wagon. I've not yet heard of a spellchecker with the entire wordlist of the OED in it -- has anyone else? The usual 75K-wordlist spellchecker is too cramped for what I do when writing. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

08-18-2005, 07:57 PM	#417
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Well, then it's not English, is it? And spelling error can thoroughly scramble the meaning of a sentence. Those who insist upon its irrelevance insist upon muddy, substandard, subintellectual thinking. There are better hills to die on than this one. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

08-03-2005, 08:51 PM	#408
Kagen4o4 The Sheriff of Nothingland Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne, Aus Posts: 1,794	the origin of the universe is very simple. black holes exist in the universe yes? these are things that once you pass the event horizon, space and time reverse and the only future for matter after this point is the singularity in the centre (i wont go into the physics and mathematics but i can if you ask me to). no amount of energy can stop this. for this to exist there needs to be an opposite to a black hole. just like for negative there is positive and for matter there is antimatter, light and dark etc.... so there has to be something called a "white hole". these have not been found. but think about it. for a white hole to exist it would need to be something where the singularity can only exist in the past. starting to sound familiar? what is the only place in the universe where something has had the singularity exist only in the past? the universe itself. logic suggests that in order for black holes to exist there needs to be at least one white hole and the only possible outcome of this is to have a singularity at the beginning of time with matter that cannot return to this point. (if youre having trouble thinking of time having a zero point, just think of it like the absolute zero in temperature) my point is there was no time before this and hence no chance for a god to decide to create the universe. the universe will either continue expanding forever or just come to a stop as it cannot return to the singularity.

08-05-2005, 01:46 AM	#414
Kagen4o4 The Sheriff of Nothingland Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne, Aus Posts: 1,794	it mite help UG if he new th@ the english language can b ripped to shreds and ppl still no what u r talking about. you know it was the most embarrasing thing in my life to realise i typed "right" instead of "rite", thankyou for going so easy on me though and just pointing it out rather than shooting me down. its so nice to have clever, intelligent people like you around to point out our little grammatical mistakes now and then. i know everyone else appriciates all the good things people like you do in the world. once again, thanks. do you have an address that i can mail you a thankyou card and flowers, maybe some chocolates too? mmm it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing you'll be there to watch over me providing your free spell-checker service. sorry, im still pissed off that i burnt my tongue on my coffee this morning.

08-07-2005, 01:41 AM	#416
Kagen4o4 The Sheriff of Nothingland Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne, Aus Posts: 1,794	my previous statement still stands, spelling is irrelevant if the meaning is understood. if someone doesnt understand what you are saying THEN spelling needs to be checked

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