Community Colleges and Remedial needs

[skysidhe]

I saw this article this morning. I am surprised but shouldn't be, that community colleges are now heavily leaned upon to bring students up to par with college course requirements.


Isn't it the responsibility of the high schools to get kids ready for college?

About three-quarters of the 17,500 freshmen at the community colleges this year have needed remedial instruction in reading, writing or math, and nearly a quarter of the freshmen have required such instruction in all three subjects. In the past five years, a subset of students deemed “triple low remedial” — with the most severe deficits in all three subjects — has doubled, to 1,000.

The reasons are familiar but were reinforced last month by startling new statistics from state education officials: fewer than half of all New York State students who graduated from high school in 2009 were prepared for college or careers, as measured by state Regents tests in English and math. In New York City, that number was 23 percent.

Many of those graduates end up at CUNY, one of the nation’s largest urban higher-education systems, which requires its community colleges to take every applicant with a high school diploma or equivalency degree.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/ny...l.html?_r=1&hp

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Isn't it the responsibility of the high schools to get kids ready for college?

You would think so, wouldn't you?

Things have really changed, imho. Of course, I could just be seeing it from my perspective: in HS we were college bound or we were not. These days, working at the CC level, I see a whole different side of things. You would not believe the number of people who take DEV (remedial or developmental) classes just to be able to take a regular old college course. Some students cannot get past that. There is a limit, too, to what FA will pay for with developmentals.

I won't get into my opinions about "not everyone is college material" because that would be like shooting myself in the foot. Oh, I have very strong opinions, but they are not conducive to where we have and are headed: higher education accessible to everyone! But, I've also seen people who had no direction or support and did poorly in HS surprise the heck out of themselves and excel in college.

[SamIam]

If everyone "deserves" a college education and universities start handing out diplomas the way high schools do, a college degree will mean about as much as a high school diploma does today. The solution? Get an MA or PhD - at least until its decided that everyone deserves one of those, too.

[skysidhe]

I take one campus class. I do see a lot of older people, like myself who are updating their skill set. It had crossed my mind, wondering, if it were not for the economic downturn if the student body would be different. Is this just something passing or is this the new norm for community colleges? Of course, most kids are in class and it is raining cats and dogs, so there isn't a whole lot of people around for me to really see the demographic and ages of the student body.

I looked at the remedial courses offered, there are not many. I suppose the larger the city the bigger the need for remedial courses. That, and there are off shoot centers here that provide those remedial courses. I bet.

[Shawnee123]

If everyone "deserves" a college education and universities start handing out diplomas the way high schools do, a college degree will mean about as much as a high school diploma does today. The solution? Get an MA or PhD - at least until its decided that everyone deserves one of those, too.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Hey, I know. Believe me, I know.

@ sky: I think it's the new norm. But I work in a huge CC in an economically challenged urban setting.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by SamIam

If everyone "deserves" a college education and universities start handing out diplomas the way high schools do, a college degree will mean about as much as a high school diploma does today. The solution? Get an MA or PhD - at least until its decided that everyone deserves one of those, too.

When my son finishes his transfer degree, he will be going to a university. In the beginning he was bewildered at the community college NOT looking like your typical college experience.

To respond to your post. I think the article said that only 25% make it past the remedial courses, so no worries about colleges giving away degrees to the undeserving.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

To respond to your post. I think the article said that only 25% make it past the remedial courses, so no worries about colleges giving away degrees to the undeserving.

If the academic standards don't get them, the inability to get further FA will. Usually they fail FA standards before they fail academic standards (for one thing we count everything...took you 3 tries to pass Maths 100? We have to calculate your 2 Fs...or withdrawals or whatever) along with your successful completion, when we check for the obligatory satisfactory progress regulations.

[skysidhe]

Unfortunately, the choices are to either work minimum wage or get a degree. Of course, $10 an hour seems to be the new minimum imo.

Terrible to get FA for remedial courses. In debt before you even begin to begin.

[Shawnee123]

With our low cost, most of our students could cover tuition/fees and books with some extra with just the Pell grant. However, they love the loans.

This is why we have some new initiatives regarding borrowing. At the very least, we can put up a few hurdles so they have to think a little about what "borrowing" means, and what the repercussions of not repaying are.

[skysidhe]

I just wrote an essay on the sub-prime housing debacle. I am hoping it's not THAT easy for people to borrow.

[ZenGum]

My job involves providing academic support to people like this.

Quite a few are recent migrants or refugees. One chap from Sudan needed to learn statistics. Trying to teach him that, I discovered he had never seen algebra before. I skipped that and then realised he could not even add up single digit numbers. Then I watched him mess it up by misusing a calculator (pressing + and = too many times). This guy is supposed to understand statistics! We did him no favours letting him into university when what he needs is high school. I'm willing to bet he knows how long he can sustain suppressing fire with an AK-47 and three clips of ammo, though!

I could throw out a dozen more examples like this. I believe in accessible education, but it has to be at the right level for the student.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Isn't it the responsibility of the high schools to get kids ready for college?

Actually, its the responsibility of the student.

[ZenGum]

True, but how is a seventeen year old to know what the appropriate standards are? Which things they don't know? The best learning techniques? Schools share some of that responsibility.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Griff

Actually, its the responsibility of the student.

It has to be a combination of responsibility between the school, students, and parents. The schools should present the doors and the parents need to push their screaming students though it...

[glatt]

Just had our parent teacher conference for our 3rd grade son. He's still having a lot of trouble with spelling. Fuking English langwidj makes no sens. Wut a bunsh uv arbitrary rulze. Evry wurd semze to be an eksepshun to a basik rule. Yue just nede tue memorize them al. (Seriously, I just tried spelling words how they sound using basic rules of spelling, and out of 30 words, 17 don't follow the basic rules. WTF? English sucks. There is very little logic to it.)

The boy rocks at math and science though. And he's finally starting to enjoy reading real books on his own. So I think it will come together for him.