Scare yourself

[ladysycamore]

Justice for all? Not at work not yet anyway:

http://www.campusaction.net/publicat...rimination.htm

The civil-rights movement of the 1960s gave hope to African Americans for equity in the workplace. But almost four decades later, that promise remains largely unfilled, according to a recent study.

The survey of 1,003 workers was conducted last fall by Rutgers University and the University of Connecticut. It describes a "glaring divide" between white workers, who say most people are not discriminated against at work, and minorities, who do not agree. Particularly African Americans.

Among the findings: Half of African-American workers believe that blacks are the most likely ethnic group to be treated unfairly, compared to 10 percent of whites and 13 percent of other racial groups who believe African Americans are the most likely target. Fifty-six percent of higher-income nonwhite workers believe that African Americans are the employees most likely to be discriminated against, compared to 33 percent of higher-income white workers. And, 28 percent of African Americans report they have been discriminated against at work, compared to 6 percent of whites.

"That is indeed likely to be the perception of African-American workers today, because even though we've made some strides since the 1960s, discrimination still exists," said Chris Bardwell, a veteran career consultant, counselor and trainer based in Chicago.

"In terms of looking at the numbers of black men or women in executive positions, there are very few of us. African Americans still are most likely to be treated unfairly in terms of promotions, opportunities for additional training, being part of the good old boy network and special projects," said Bardwell.

Additionally, African Americans often feel isolated on the job-as Bardwell felt as the only African American in the executive ranks of a large organization. "You're held to a standard where you must be better than or twice as good as white men and women in order to get ahead," she said. "We are slowly progressing, but I just hope the numbers don't get worse."

I asked Bardwell where she would be today if discrimination hadn't been so pervasive. Without hesitation, she answered: "If I were white, I'd be a corporate senior vice president with a corner office and all the perks."

Howard Lindsey, chairman of the history department at DePaul University, says, "institutional white racism didn't die with the end of the civil rights movement. It took other forms and might not be as blatant-but if you look under the surface you find some of the same attitudes. And people with those attitudes will find a way to manifest them."

Lindsey, who teaches a course in African-American history, says these are the best of times and worst of times for blacks in the workplace. "The best, because the fact that there are now a few black CEOs is unprecedented," he said. "On the other hand, the masses of black workers, even though they're let in the door, are limited in how far they can go."

Still, 50 percent of the African Americans surveyed believe things have gotten better. "Is the glass half-full or half-empty? One out of two African Americans still experience discrimination," Lindsey said. "I don't think that's going to change that much that soon-but I'm hoping I'm wrong on this."

(c) 2002, Chicago Tribune.

[FatFreddie]

I've read this story a couple of times. It's hard to tell if she's over reacting, or if this was a rehersal.
F

[Troubleshooter]

Another point that may be getting overlooked is why are they discriminted against?

Could it be that the disproportionate amount of illiteracy in the black community is skewing the number of representative blacks in jobs?

Could it be that the media representation of blacks is causing a sort of second-hand discrimination as opposed to the morons in the supremicist groups?

Also, what is the number (%) of black executives in the workforce? Are the levels correlated?

[jaguar]

Well call me cynical but blacks thinking blacks are discriminated against doesn't count for much in my book. Call me cynical but I know from talking to cops here that every time they arrest a black kid here they call racism, never mind the fact they're guilty as sin and being dealt with like everyone else, in much the same way I'd say a fair bit if the hand-wringing in the article 'I didn't get promoted because I'm black' could just be because someone else was better for the job, god forbid. Or someone else, as bruce said, was a golfing buddy or fellow lodge member and race had shit all to do with it, just plain old jobs for the boys. I'm sure some of it goes on but hell, I know a fair few people that sit on boards of some damn big companies and if they thought their managers were skewing promotions based on race rather than peformance they'd hit the damn roof. Maybe it's different in the US but colour me skeptical.

[DanaC]

Maybe then black people are just statistically least likely to be suited to the job ..... maybe there's some very good reason as to why their opportunities seem less and the wages they command overall dont quite add up to those of their white counterparts.

Funnily enough the very thing you point out as part of the reason for your skepticism is also the thing that suggests to me most strongly that the problem does exist as it's been stated.....to whit, the fact that it's usually black people who claim racism against themselves and their fellow blacks.....I hear that and it occurs to me that it's usually the white folks who are claiming racism as a nonissue. Perhaps that's because the life experience of a black man ( or woman) intorduces him to racism and bigotry at a very young age and in an intimate way.

[jaguar]

So what? Every time things do go perfectly it's obviously racism and the man keeping them down and it couldn't possibly be anything else? Maybe it's an american thing but I've never heard and asian guy complain about racism in the workplace and I'm yet to come across these hoards of racist conspirators who are oppressing blacks in the workplace. I mean plenty of jobs-for-mates stuff goes on but that's nothing to do with race, just old school ties and lodge buddies.

the wages they command overall don't quite add up to those of their white counterparts.

Back that up with numbers or take it back.

[DanaC]

From the Columbus Dispatch

"THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Black workers in Ohio earn 83 cents to every dollar that white workers earn and the gap is widening, a study being released today found.

Policy Matters Ohio, a Cleveland-based nonprofit research group, also said black workers in Ohio are more likely to hold poverty-wage jobs and earn less than white workers with similar education levels.

"The basic finding is that blacks still earn less than white workers do in Ohio and, in fact, that gap is growing,'' said Amy Hanauer, executive director of Policy Matters Ohio. "It's a big problem.''

Three-year-old Policy Matters Ohio is a nonpartisan, nonprofit research group funded by the George Gund Foundation. Its information is sent to legislators, although Hanauer said the group is not a lobbying organization.

Today's report, "What Color is Your Paycheck? Race and Wages in Ohio,'' used state-specific U.S. Census Bureau data from 2001.

It found that the median wage of black workers in Ohio fell to $10.91 an hour from $12.49 an hour between 1979 and 2001. White workers saw their median wages decrease to $13.17 an hour from $13.84 an hour during that span. Based on these figures, the so-called racial wage gap for blacks has increased to 17.2 percent from 9.8 percent in from 1979 to 2001, the group said.

The study found wages of both blacks and whites increase with more education. It said blacks that don't complete high school earn $8.32 per hour. On average, their wages increase 20 percent if they complete high school, 15 percent with one to three years of education past high school and 39 percent with a college or graduate degree.

Hanauer said reasons for the overall disparity in wages include a loss of manufacturing jobs, a reduction in union jobs, the movement of businesses from inner cities to suburbs, disparities in education among blacks and whites, and discrimination.

State Sen. C.J. Prentiss, D-Cleveland, a board member of Policy Matters Ohio and outgoing president of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus, said the wage gap mirrors similar disparities among blacks and whites, including those in housing, health care and educational achievement.

Prentiss believes wages won't improve until education does.

"The things that I think our society can quickly do something about is the disparity that exists in education and discrimination,'' Prentiss said. "When you don't underfund schools, you're able to attract high-quality teachers, which is what urban schools need.''

Stephen Mangum, senior associate dean for economic programs and professor of management and human resources at Ohio State University, agrees that decreases in industrial jobs and union jobs are reasons for the wage gap. But he said he doesn't believe education can be blamed, because "disparities in terms of educational attainment are declining, not growing.''

The study also found that:

* The percentage of all workers earning less than the poverty-wage rate ($8.63 an hour in 2001) increased from 1979 to 1989 but has decreased since. In 2001, 21.9 percent of white workers earned poverty wages or less, while 28.8 percent of black workers were at or below that level.

* White women's wages increased 13.3 percent between 1989 and 2001, while black women's earnings decreased.

* The 17 percent racial wage gap falls to 12.5 percent when comparing wages of union workers.

The findings make sense to Walter Cates, president of the Main Street Business Association in Columbus. Cates, a longtime proponent of minority rights, said he also blames a lack of diversity in major corporations for the racial wage gap.

"Like kind helps support like kind,'' Cates said. "If I'm a young, up-and-coming college-educated business executive, unless there's some ruling or wish from the top that diversity will be respected and honored, it doesn't happen much.''


Article

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Funnily enough the very thing you point out as part of the reason for your skepticism is also the thing that suggests to me most strongly that the problem does exist as it's been stated.....to whit, the fact that it's usually black people who claim racism against themselves and their fellow blacks.....I hear that and it occurs to me that it's usually the white folks who are claiming racism as a nonissue. Perhaps that's because the life experience of a black man ( or woman) intorduces him to racism and bigotry at a very young age and in an intimate way.

or maybe it is that many white people like me have been accused of racism by those who cry the loudest. these is an accusation that makes all thinking individuals step back in a moment of introspection. i have always come away from those moments acknowledging that if you think the world is out to get you, it is very easy to find examples of wrongs directed at you. i know, for myself, that i hold no racist ideologies. in fact, my lack of racism is often what causes the racist card thrown in my direction. i don't care what color a person is. for good or bad, i don't care. they will receive no special attention, positive or negative, due to skin color. i feel no obligation to provide ANY special consideration for skin pigmentation. i am responsible for my actions alone, i hold no historic guilt and will not be yoked by someone else's guilt. a person is just a person in my eyes.

------------------
dana snuck in ahead of me: always look just beyond the numbers too. when i was in college, my minority relations professor (who hated me ) required that we look into a recent news story in the area. the largest fire department in the area had fewer than 10 black firefighters out of well over 100 total firefighters. everyone wrote papers about the obvious racist bent of the FD. i wrote mine on the fact that black firefighters hired vs compared to black firefighters applied was a much better ration than white firefighters hired vs white firefighters applied. his predictable response was that if my research was accurate that it only proved the FD was racist for not going out and finding more black applicants. this FD was very popular, they didn't do much in the way of recruiting - they would show up to the local highschools and colleges for the pre-graduation job fairs to hand out fliers, that is it.
but that goes to show that if you look hard enough, you can find a racist bent to anything.

[DanaC]

That's a civilised attitude Lookout. Unfortunately there are enough people who dont think like that as to make a racist world. Just because some whites are not racist does not make the black experience any less discriminated against.

[jaguar]

i don't care what color a person is. for good or bad, i don't care. they will receive no special attention, positive or negative, due to skin color. i feel no obligation to provide ANY special consideration for skin pigmentation. i am responsible for my actions alone, i hold no historic guilt and will not be yoked by someone else's guilt. a person is just a person in my eyes.

Nicely put.

Interesting article Dana, I might see if I can dig up some comparative studies this side of the pond, it'd be intersting to see whether it's a byproduct of the history of the US or the result of just good old fashioned bigots the world over.

On a side note, if you're white and want to experience discrimination go to a 3rd world nation, particularly in asia. You'll pay white tax - goods cost 10-40% more, you're almost certainly going to get a traffic ticket every time you see a cop, taxes will be higher and bribes far more expensive.

[lookout123]

i know what you are saying jag - when i was in the middle east it was pointed out that even if i am broadsided in the middle of an intersection while safely travelling through a green light, the accident would be my fault if the driver of the other car was of arab descent - after all, if i wasn't there, they couldn't have hit me.

[Clodfobble]

On a side note, if you're white and want to experience discrimination go to a 3rd world nation, particularly in asia. You'll pay white tax - goods cost 10-40% more, you're almost certainly going to get a traffic ticket every time you see a cop, taxes will be higher and bribes far more expensive.

Not to mention the restaurants where you will simply be asked to leave if you are white--most notably in Japan.

[jane_says]

My husband spent two years in Japan, and he just assured me that he was never asked to leave any establishment in the country. He says he frequented everything from dive clubs to very nice restaurants and was always treated with the highest kindness and decency.

[Clodfobble]

It really only happens in the rural areas, so I'm told. My friend wasn't actually asked to leave, but that's because her Japanese companions specifically told her to avoid a couple of restaurants.