Why we should enforce the death penalty

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar


My first husband (the one that murdered Steven) abused me from the time Justin was born until he found another woman he thought was better than me a year and some later. This included dislocating my fingers and knees, rape with a knife, an involuntary tattoo on my hand, carving his "mark" into my chest with a knife, having sex with women in our bed WHILE I WAS IN IT (God Forbid I give any sign of waking up) and threatening my family and me if I left him or told anyone what was going on.

If you think for one minute I would have confronted him while he was awake, you have another think coming. NOW I would kill anyone who even seriously thought of that as he slept, but then, being a scared, 18 year old dumb ass that believed the poison he was spewing? Not a chance.

I'm right there with you. I have a knife scar down my chest from my personal psycho. I was choked, beaten, sent to the hospital twice (this was before cops were required to arrest whether charges were pressed or not--these cops just told me, "well, we don't see him, but if he comes back, call us"...Yeah, right.), and emotionally tortured. He had people following me, he checked my gas gauge to make sure I didn't go anywhere except work.

I finally got away the time he attacked me, choking me, and I just freaked the hell out. Next thing I knew, my hands were around HIS neck, and if I'd have gotten a better grip, I'd've done my best to kill him. As it was, he threw me back against the wall and left. I used that time to get away and hide from him. It took six months before he stopped looking for me.

I was 18 at the time this happened too. It took two years for me to get away from him. The abuse happened so gradually that I didn't really see it coming until the first time his hands went around my throat. It was just an explosion of violence out of the blue, a massive escalation. By that time, I was walking on eggshells.

For example: if I didn't clean the house well enough, I was attacked. If I DID clean it well enough, then I was fixing it up so that I could meet someone and have an affair. There was no way to win. The psychological torture is such that when they tell you something, you believe them. He told me he had people following me, and that he always knew where I was and what I was doing. He was 28. I was 18. He was my first serious relationship. What did I know, right? I was a kid, more or less, and he used that. He could be charming when he wanted to be, and in front of other people.

I get so tired of hearing people say, "well, why doesn't she just leave?" I'll tell them why: IF you're allowed to have a job, it's a shitty one, so you don't have the money to leave. Some people don't have family or friends, or anyone to help them. Some have children. And 80% of domestic violence that ends in the death of the woman happens AFTER she leaves. You're so psychologically tortured, and so brainwashed, that you have no will, and the strength you do have is put into escaping abuse by doing what you think he wants. Some women don't have vehicles. There are a lot of reasons it's hard to leave.

Abusers don't stop abusing. They just move on to someone else. I see that as a serial criminal. Just because they don't always kill doesn't mean they don't ruin lives irreparably. Perhaps if abuse were considered more than a minor infraction, and people got more than a slap on the wrist for it (if that), we might not have so many murderers out there (since they all claim abuse as kids). Anti-DP's want to start being proactive, start THERE.

But you know what? That abuse didn't lead me to kill. I didn't decide all men were like that and therefore needed to die. Ultimately, it's not our childhood. It's the choices we make. As grown men and women, we have the option of making our own choices in behavior. I'm not going to justify my behavior by blaming it on something that happened when I was a kid, and I'm not going to accept it from a murderer.


Sidhe

[TheLorax]

"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life...Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends." LOTR

[glatt]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
But you know what? That abuse didn't lead me to kill.

So if you knew it was wrong to kill, then why are you willing to give medals to others who do?

Lady S. and Onyx, I'm right there with you (read my earlier post about deciding to kill the man who abused me). I never ever want to see this man again. I don't want to know if he's alive or dead. I don't care what happens to him, but it would be nice if he never abused another woman again, for whatever reason that prevented him from doing so.

That said, I found that I could not go around hating this individual. Hate and anger are corrosive emotions which destroy the soul. He was abused as a child. I, too, consider that no excuse, but it is an explanation for his behavior. His Mother was a single parent who used to lock him in the closet while she went to work. Beatings were a part of his dailey life as a child. Does that mean he gets to inflict the same treatment on me or anybody else? No fucking way! But it helped me to understand and stop hating. I imagined him as an adorable little 4 year old boy. I imagined this little boy being locked in a closet for 8 hours or more, peeing in his pants because he couldn't go to the bathroom. I imagined this little kid with huge blue eyes getting back handed across the face for the most minor infraction. It made me want to cry. He never learned a normal way of loving anyone. All he was ever taught was anger and abuse. While I will never, ever condone his actions, I feel sorry for him. I am happy, happy, happy that he has vanished from my life. Do I wish him dead? No, I simply wish him healed.

[OnyxCougar]

And that's fine for you. I'm glad you managed to envision your way to peace.

But that doesn't happen often.

I've tried forgiving. I can't. I can't forgive what he did. He wasn't abused as a child, he abused his nieces. He was in trouble with the law as a juvenile (stole his mother's car, picked up his under 15 yo girlfriend and fled the state), and when his mother couldn't deal with him, she sent him to his aunt and uncle.

There is alot more of my story around here on the Cellar, in different places, but the bottom line is, Lady S pretty much described my husband. Only mine went further than hers.

I remember the first time my fingers were dislocated. Because I didn't catch on to learning how to eat with chopsticks fast enough. He dislocated the left hand fingers first, so I had 5 chances. That's fair, right?

I was not allowed to wear makeup/wear nice clothes. That meant I wanted attention. That meant I wanted guys to look at me. That meant that I wanted to fuck other men. Logical, right?

And God help me if I LOOK at another man. Cuz then I wanna fuck him. And lets face it, no man would want ME. I mean, I'm fat, ugly and am DAMN lucky that I have HIM. I should be grateful to him for putting up with me.

I better go to work (at ALWAYS a crappy job) but not talk to male employees. Also, he will pick me up. This meant arriving 30 minutes before I got off work, glaring at all the males and leering at all the females, trying to talk them into sleeping with them. I got fired from Carl's Jr. once because a female manager felt threatened by him, and since he refused to stop coming to pick me up (forcing me to walk because there's no way I was going to drive MY car anywhere and leave him no transportation, even tho he didn't work), I got fired.

These were the highlights.

And I've tried. I've tried to forgive and move on. I've mostly gotten past when he did to me. But I will never forgive him for what he did to Steven. I can't. To do that would disrepect Steven. Steve wasn't no prize, but he didn't deserve THAT.

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by glatt


So if you knew it was wrong to kill, then why are you willing to give medals to others who do?

I was beaten down, but my sense of self-preservation, and probably my temper, finally overcame that. For all I knew at the time, I was going to die. The only thing going through my head at the time was, "If I'm going to die, I'm fucking taking him with me." It didn't come to that, but that was my intent.

See my comment on abusers, above. They're serial criminals. They don't stop. They just find someone else weaker.

And to Mari: Mine wasn't abused either. He was kinda spoiled, actually. I found out later that he'd been psychiatrically examined around age 15 or so, and the doctors told his mother he was a borderline personality disorder and should be committed for treatment because he showed signs of being dangerous. Again, personality disorders cannot be cured. Instead of committing him, she let him loose, and look what happened. Two women (that I know of) and a child almost died. He knew what he was doing, and he knew that it was wrong. He was good at evading detection, and never left a mark on me.


Sidhe

[Lady Sidhe]

"I was not allowed to wear makeup/wear nice clothes. That meant I wanted attention. That meant I wanted guys to look at me. That meant that I wanted to fuck other men. Logical, right?

And God help me if I LOOK at another man. Cuz then I wanna fuck him. And lets face it, no man would want ME. I mean, I'm fat, ugly and am DAMN lucky that I have HIM. I should be grateful to him for putting up with me.

I better go to work (at ALWAYS a crappy job) but not talk to male employees. Also, he will pick me up. This meant arriving 30 minutes before I got off work, glaring at all the males and leering at all the females, trying to talk them into sleeping with them. I got fired from Carl's Jr. once because a female manager felt threatened by him, and since he refused to stop coming to pick me up (forcing me to walk because there's no way I was going to drive MY car anywhere and leave him no transportation, even tho he didn't work), I got fired.

These were the highlights."


Damn, Onyx...that sounds like what I went through.


To everyone else:

I don't think the majority of people understand the constant terror abusers cause. Those who have been abused, in whatever way, DO know. They're excellent brainwashers, and have the ability to keep you in fear constantly. You're on eggshells the whole time because you never know what will set them off. Something that is ignored one day will set off an explosion the next, all to keep you off-balance. They isolate you from anyone who can help you. When they threaten to kill you, you believe them.

IMO, they're as bad as murderers. They destroy something in you, and you never REALLY trust again, not like you used to. And that's for the people who, for whatever reason, are better able to deal with the memories. For those who are more traumatized, and can't deal very well, the abuser has destroyed their lives. And those are just the ones who get through the ordeal with their lives.

And one thing that makes abusers worse than most murderers (except, of course, the thrill-seeking murderers, like sexual sadists) is that they ENJOY the suffering they cause. They enjoy the feeling of power it gives them. They are the true sadists. And they will keep on doing it, over and over, because they love the way it makes them feel.

Even if kevin HAD been abused as a kid, I wouldn't feel sorry for him. He was a grown man, and he made his choice to do what he did, over and over, to more than one person. He'd been in jail for it before (I spoke at length with his ex-wife), and apparantly he wasn't able to learn from his experience.

You know, I grew up in an alcoholic family. I witnessed and ref'd fights from the age of eight to the age of sixteen. I put the adults in the house to bed at night because they were too drunk to make it themselves. But am I a drunk? Nope. I lived it, I learned it, but I made the choice to not inflict such behavior on the family I would one day have.

It seems to me that these criminals who are blaming abuse for the way they act, wouldn't want to treat someone the same way, because they know how awful it is. Like someone who was beaten as a child choosing to use other methods to discipline their own children, because they don't want to repeat the pattern. Many people are abused as kids. They don't all grow up to kill or abuse, because they make the CHOICE not to. It's all about power. Murder is about power. Rape is about power. Abuse is about power.

Choices we make as adults (and as children) should have consequences. When they don't, all that is shown is that one can get away with bad behavior. The DP is all about consequences for the ultimate in unacceptable behavior. If we're going to start somewhere, start with rewarding good choices, and punishing the bad ones. We learn as children what is and is not acceptable social behavior. When these little juvenile delinquents get slap on the wrist after slap on the wrist, they learn that bad choices don't have consequences that outweigh the pleasure of the bad behavior.

I, personally, think we should bring back public humiliation for lesser crimes and first offenses (this is in reference to non-violent crimes, property crimes, and the like, not for murderers, rapists, abusers or child molesters).

Bring back the stocks and the canes.

Don't put a thief in jail, put him in the stocks in the public square for a couple of days and sell rotten fruit to throw at him (that'll pay for his food and water); don't stick the little gangsta wannabe in jail for robbery--cane his ass in front of his friends (I say this because a few years back, when the caning issue came up because of the American delinquent who got caned...there was a town in the states--I can't remember the name of it offhand--in which they had a problem with defacing public property. The Elders of the town suggested caning instead of jail time. When reporters interviewed some of the gang members in jail, the gang members said that they'd rather have jail time than be caned.) It hurts like a bitch, but it does no lasting damage and doesn't cost the state a thing. I'm sure someone would do the caning for free. People are very sensitive to humiliation. I think public humiliation would do some good. All that's hurt is pride, and maybe someone's butt, and it would keep our jails and prisons free for the murderers, rapists, abusers and other violent criminals.


Sidhe

[Lady Sidhe]

Amite Jury finds Man Guilty in Killings of Woman, Children

Bob Anderson--Florida Parishes Bureau


Amite: A jury convicted Simon Hutchinson of four counts of second-degree murder in the killing of an Independence family, court officials said Monday.
A jury unanimously found Hutchinson guilty of the murders of Barbara Jean Curry, and her children, Joseph Curry, 17, Daytoria "Coco" Curry, 15, and 16-month-old Jocorey Marshall. Jurors deliberated for about 40 minutes before returning the verdict Friday, according to Brenda Bickford of the District Attorney's office.
Fire officials found the toddler's body in the family's burned-out mobile home, setting off a search for the rest of the family.
The following day, authorities found the bodies of the mother and her two older children in a wooded area near Uneedus.
Detectives said the three were forced to lie down and each was shot in the head.
Under state law, Hutchinson, who will be sentenced Wednesday, must receive at least one life sentence, but could get four consecutive life sentences, ads did Perry Pooler, who was convicted previously in the same case, prosecutor Don Wall said.
Pooler was called to the stand last week in Hutchinson's trial, but refused to testify despite being promised immunity from any further prosecution resulting from his testimony. District Court judge Bob Morrison added another six month sentence to Pooler's prison time for refusing to testify, court officials said.
Prior to their trials, Pooler and Hutchinson had each given statements blaming the other for the shootings, authorities said.
Authorities said two guns were used to kill the three oldest family members.
One of those was identified as having belonged to Hutchinson, Wall said.
Hutchinson did not testify and the defense did not call any witnesses, court officials said.
Wall said robbery appeared to be the motive for the break-in and fire at the Curry's home, but there were indications that the family members had been killed because they recognized Pooler.


Four people are dead. An entire family, including an infant, because two men wanted someone else's property and were willing to kill so as not to be identified-- and the men who did it get LIFE?? Pathetic.

Let's see...four people, plus their family...just counting immediete family, that could probably add up to somewhere around, oh, if there are aunts and uncles and cousins and grandparents on both sides, lowest estimate, twenty people whose lives were shattered. At LEAST.

Sidhe

[DanaC]

Thats awful. What a thing to happen to a family. Add to that total any relatives the murderers themselves have. Their loved ones( if those men are loved ) arent dead but they are no longer part of the same world. Must be horrendous to love someone and them do something like that. How does anyone cope with that? I doubt they garner much sympathy from people, theirs must be a very lonely brand of grief.

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by DanaC
Thats awful. What a thing to happen to a family. Add to that total any relatives the murderers themselves have. Their loved ones( if those men are loved ) arent dead but they are no longer part of the same world. Must be horrendous to love someone and them do something like that. How does anyone cope with that? I doubt they garner much sympathy from people, theirs must be a very lonely brand of grief.

I agree. I feel sorry for the families of the murderers, because from now on, people are going to whisper about them when they go out in public, and think about how hard it is when they have to deal with their friends....

Assuming that these two men did not come from abusive families, then that means they also ruined the lives of their own families, who are innocent in all of this. They have to live with knowing that their child/brother/cousin/grandson/nephew/uncle is a cold-blooded killer. It'll reflect on them, whether they deserve it or not.

Just another example of the callousness of murderers. Not only don't they care about strangers, but they don't even think about their own families when they do things like this. They're so self-centered that no one ever crosses their minds except themselves.

I don't want these people breeding. If you want a champion show animal, you breed for desirable traits, and breed out the undesirable traits. I don't want to have to worry about these people continuing to breed their undesirable traits back into the gene pool.

And before you ask, yes, I'm all for genetic advances. I see no problem with cloning or stem-cell research.


Sidhe

[DanaC]

I dont think there is much chance of those two going forth and multiplying
Talking of stemcell research have you heard what British scientists have beenup to? Stem cells to grow teeth....No more need for dentures....Figures thats what our scientists would be devoting their time to. Now maybe us Brits can keep our teeth past 40!

[Happy Monkey]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
And before you ask, yes, I'm all for genetic advances. I see no problem with cloning or stem-cell research.

And eugenics, apparently.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Happy Monkey
And eugenics, apparently.

We'll be on the eugenics side, and you can be on the dysgenics side.

Edit: Sidhe posted from me by accident, but I agree with her this time.

[Lady Sidhe]

OMG! He AGREES with me? Call Ripley's, quick!!!

Sidhe

[xoxoxoBruce]

So two wrongs make a right?