The New "Tolerance"

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Buddug

Strictly speaking you cannot call yourself a Christian just because you follow the teachings of Christ . To be a Christian you have to accept the idea of the Virgin Birth , and you have to accept the idea that Jesus died and rose again.

Really? Care to name off all the other parts of the bible that you have to take literally in order to call yourself a Christian? Where's that blurry line?

[Stormieweather]

There are also many distinct definitions of the term "Christian" (pronounced 'kristee`ân):

Most liberal Christian denominations, secularists, public opinion pollsters, and this web site [see link below] define "Christian" very broadly as any person or group who sincerely believes themselves to be Christian.

Thus, Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestants, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox believers, Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, United Church members, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, etc. are all considered Christian. They total about 75% of the North American adult population.

However, many Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestants define "Christian" more narrowly to include only those persons with beliefs like their own. Or they might accept as a "Christian" anyone who has been "born again" regardless of their denomination. They might estimate that about 35% of the North American adult population are real Christians.

Other denominations regard their own members to be the only Christians in the world. Some are quite small, numbering only a few thousand followers.

Different definitions on such a fundamental topic makes dialog and debate among Christian groups very difficult. It also makes estimating the number of Christians in the U.S. quite impossible. By some definitions, 75% of Americans are Christians; by other definitions, it is a small fraction of 1%.

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn.htm

[xoxoxoBruce]

1%?
The only real Christians are outlaw bikers?

[wylkyn]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Don't waste your breath telling me that Christianity is infringing on your rights. You're full of shit.

You know, for someone who follows a religion based on martyrdom and surviving adversity, you're coming off as somewhat of a whiner. This of all the Christian martyrs who came before you and be thankful that the worst you have to worry about is that you are no longer the most popular kid in class. WWJD? I doubt that he would use "You're full of shit" as one of his arguments for the cause.

[xoxoxoBruce]

But it's not, "a religion based on martyrdom and surviving adversity".
That may be prominent in the history of those following it, especially in the early years, but that is definitely not the basis of Christianity.
You could might say it's been a theme, and even a tool, of many of the organizations calling themselves Christian.

The basis of being a Christian is, "Love thy neighbor as thy self".

I won't argue the horrendous deeds that have been perpetrated on humanity in Jesus name. But he had no part in that, nor do I for one moment believe he would approve. To be a Christian you must follow his edict, I quoted above.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The basis of being a Christian is, "Love thy neighbor as thy self".

You know, Bruce, coming from you...I believe that. It really is that simple.

Unfortunately, so much fucking smoke and bullshit have been scattered about in the last couple thousand years that most would have you believe that you have to give up your free will (while calling it *having* free will), confess your sins (when you may not even have any) and pour forth the contents of your pockets in order to buy your way into the next life.

Sometimes, I wonder if people even read their own sacred texts.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The more complicated you make it, the more profitable it will be.

Actually it one of Griff's posts, that finally resolved the conflict between my rejection of the church and my belief that Jesus was teaching the right way to live.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Care to name off all the other parts of the bible that you have to take literally in order to call yourself a Christian? Where's that blurry line?

Kitsune, being mean ill becomes you. Rein back, if you please.

And for a Readers' Digest listing of the beliefs that make a Christian, have a read of the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed, and the Creed of St. Athanasius. The first two are pretty easy to follow, but expect Athanasius to be mystical and esoteric. These set forth the, or a, baseline.

There are faiths I would call Christian that do not profess a Creed as an article of faith or a piece of liturgy, but it seems to me they do not disdain the Creed, either -- the Unitarian Universalists being a case in point.

[Elspode]

I like the UU's. They're sort of the Pot Luck of religions. Bring watcha' got, and we'll all share some of it. Works for me.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Actually it one of Griff's posts, that finally resolved the conflict between my rejection of the church and my belief that Jesus was teaching the right way to live.

Careful with the advertising Mister, I prefer to keep my heresies below the radar screen.

[BigV]

I, for one, would like to know which post sparked your epiphany. A PM would suffice. Pretty please?

xoB, I would add "Love the Lord with all your might" to your short list. Loving my neighbor as I love myself is easier to appreciate, in that I know myself and I know my neighbors in a way that I can't know the Lord. Both "commandments" are central to Christianity.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by BigV

I, for one, would like to know which post sparked your epiphany. A PM would suffice. Pretty please?

I'll see if I can find it when I get a chance

xoB, I would add "Love the Lord with all your might" to your short list. Loving my neighbor as I love myself is easier to appreciate, in that I know myself and I know my neighbors in a way that I can't know the Lord. Both "commandments" are central to Christianity.

I disagree, there are no "commandments" and just one rule, to be a Christian. Everything else is religion.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Kitsune, being mean ill becomes you. Rein back, if you please.

I'm simply trying to point out that even Christians can't come to an agreement on what it means to "be christian". Some require passages in the bible to be taken literally and followed to the letter, others... not so. I'll accept that it is mostly due to the church(es) rather than the nature of the religion, itself.

"I give you these fifteen-- *CRASH* ...ten, ten commandments!"

[xoxoxoBruce]

How do you think the muslims feel these days. They're being lumped like Christians.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

And for a Readers' Digest listing of the beliefs that make a Christian, have a read of the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed, and the Creed of St. Athanasius. The first two are pretty easy to follow, but expect Athanasius to be mystical and esoteric. These set forth the, or a, baseline.

Nope, that does not "make a Christian". That makes a 5th Century Roman Catholic.