poems from China

[noodles]

here's a rhymed translation of Mao Zedong, the late President of China. i 'd like u to share with me your response and comments on the translation, though i know most of u prefer free verse.


Inscription on a photograph of Chinese militia women



Bright and brave, with rifle five feet long,
At early dawn they shine on the drilling place.
Most Chinese daughters have a desire strong,
To face the powder, and not powder the face.

[lumberjim]

how can you translate a poem, make it rhyme, and still convey the images that the poet intended? don't you lose something by making it ryhme? is there a literal translation available for us to compare it to?

[wolf]

Rhyming or not ... it's a neat little couplet, and very clearly expresses the propaganda of the state.

[noodles]

a word-for-word version goes something like this(the original a four-liner, each line with 7 characters, rhyme scheme:aaba):

first a phonetic transliteration, though:


sa shuang ying zi wu chi qiang
shu guang chu zhao yan bing chang
zhong hua er nu duo qi zhi
bu ai hong zhuang ai wu zhuang


literal version:

valiant/ heroic bearing/ five/ chi/ rifles
dawning light/ first/shine/(on )drill ground
Chinese/women/have many/unique/ambitions
not love red dress/(but)love martial garb


note:"chi", chinese equivalent of "foot."

[Clodfobble]

So are you translating these yourself, or are you just writing a paper on the translations?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by noodles
a word-for-word version goes something like this(the original a four-liner, each line with 7 characters, rhyme scheme:aaba):

first a phonetic transliteration, though:


sa shuang ying zi wu chi qiang
shu guang chu zhao yan bing chang
zhong hua er nu duo qi zhi
bu ai hong zhuang ai wu zhuang


literal version:

valiant/ heroic bearing/ five/ chi/ rifles
dawning light/ first/shine/(on )drill ground
Chinese/women/have many/unique/ambitions
not love red dress/(but)love martial garb


note:"chi", chinese equivalent of "foot."

Not that I speak Chinese or anything, but how do you translate


"not love red dress but love martial garb"

into

"To face the powder, and not powder the face."?

That's not even close to the same thing. It's not "translation", it's "changing the poem".

[noodles]

Originally posted by Clodfobble
So are you translating these yourself, or are you just writing a paper on the translations?

not my own translation.

i need your comments and response for testing, shaping, and improving our translation strategies.

[Torrere]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar


Not that I speak Chinese or anything, but how do you translate

"not love red dress but love martial garb"
into
"To face the powder, and not powder the face."?

That's not even close to the same thing. It's not "translation", it's "changing the poem".

They're different metaphors for the same idea. Any communication that is translated must be refashioned by it's translator, and this goes double for metaphors and poetry. In English, "To face the powder and not powder the face" is powerful poetry; "not love red dress but love martial garb" isn't.

[OnyxCougar]

Isn't that called transliteration then?

[Happy Monkey]

I suspect that translation of poetry is so often transliteration that it's usually just assumed to be so.

[Billy]

I cannot know what is first and second sentence mean in Chinese. I must check it in Mao' peotry. In our Chinese test books there are many Mao's poem. Most of his poem is wonderful. I don't like the politics so much, so I just know some his famouse sentences.

I like Tang and Song dynasty poem. I can tear out in reading the poem. The poem show us many good stories and best dream situation.

[noodles]

Some translation critics argue that the chiasmus in question (line 4) distorts the original, more clever than sincere or thoughtful, or that it jingles and implies unintended humor.

Other critics, however, insist that it is powerful, clinches the image and anchors it.

Those criticisms mainly concern 3 points:
i) "desire strong" is ungrammatical, and sounds Victorian;
ii)"on drilling place" should be replaced by "on the drill ground";
iii)the second "to" in 4th line should be deleted.

You, i believe, are better judges than we Chinese are. We can detect any distortion or inaccuracy, but unfortunately, we can never determine whether the translation on its own stands as a respectable english poem.

[Billy]

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Zhong hua er nu duo qi zhi, bu ai hong zhuang ai wu zhuang.

I just can tranlate the mean into English. Mao wrote it in Culture Revolution. Then whole country went it.

The beautiful and heroic bearing woman possemen took the long muskets. They practised on the trainning field in the sunrise. Most Chinese women are the big heros becasue they not like fashion clothes but army clothes (like contribute their youth to the country construction).

The picture is Mao's poem handwriting.