Government Shut Down

[Adak]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I don't see how this has exposed Obama as anything but an embattled president being held to ransom by unreasonable opposition.

The mark of a great President is acknowledging the concerns of both parties, and helping to bring the people and parties, together. Compromises are the keystone needed to make a great government, work.

Not stick it to the people he's supposed to be serving! Going to extra expense to close the open air memorials in Washington (WWII, Lincoln, MLKing, and Vietnam), and the memorial cemeteries in France (most notably around Normandy Beaches).

That cemented Obama as an ass-wipe forever. Obama had ALL the cards here:

1) Dominant party in the Senate, and a strong minority even in the House. The Democrats are all united, as well, whereas the Republicans are split moderates and very conservative.

2) ACA/Obamacare was already law. There is no way the funding can not go through, regardless of what the Conservatives in the House or Senate, do. It's too late for that.

All Obama had to do was have a conference with the Conservatives, and make some slight compromises. Not to cut Obamacare, of course, that was never possible, just find something to give up as a symbol of the give and take politicians make to each other, all the time. I'm not saying it was his duty to do it, but it would have been a great sign of working together, to keep the gov't running, and our two parties being civil to one another. The substance could be quite small. It's all about saving face, showing a bit of respect for the opposition party, and everyone goes home a winner.

Instead, Obama saw a chance to win win win, playing political gamesmanship. I'm not saying that the Republicans didn't start the game, but clearly it was an error, and it SCREAMED for a victor to be magnanimous in his triumph. But Obama would rather barricade off the WWII Memorial, so the 80 year old "Honor Flight" vets from the Midwest, can't get in to see it before they die. These are all WWII vets, for Christ's sake! And that memorial belongs to the PEOPLE, the gov't just has custodial care.

Ordinary, mainstream conservatives must be so sick of this stuff. How can they fly the flag of fiscal competency with this sort of shit coming from their ranks?

The damage the Tea Party Republicans have done to America's standing in the world is profound. No matter what else, America's status as an economic powerhouse has never been more under threat. Having heard the same people rail against Obama for making America 'look weak' to her enemies by, for example, talking to Iran, it is surreal to me that they would voluntarily make their country look like it's a borderline failed state.

The time for arguments and compromises was during the debates leading up to the passing of the budget and the passing of the Affordable Care Act. democrats compromised heavily. They all but compromised away most of the useful features of that act and pretty much gave the republicans the budget they asked for.
For the Republicans to then balk at paying the bills or enacting that compromise was absurd.

The damage wasn't from the Tea Party Republicans! The damage was from the Conservatives starting a stupid political maneuver, that was not thought out. Worse still, they weren't even united on what they were going to do; what they were going to support, and what they were NOT going to support.

The focus was on Obamacare - which is already law, and they can't get enough votes to repeal it. So what's the sense in fighting against it?
Not much! Not that I can see.

That's why Obama had them where he couldn't lose. Just no way. That's where a really good president would have gone into conference with the Conservatives, and worked out a quick compromise to keep the gov't running normally. Instead, he has the NIH drug trials refuse to register new (terminal) cancer victims, into it's trials.They can't register (put a name and data into the computer), to save lives?? The doctors are there working, the nurses are there working, the trials are still on-going and new ones being started, but they can't REGISTER a new patient now?

That's SOO scummy. I feel dirty just entering this into a reply.

But this was the dumbest political maneuver I've seen in a long time, for sure.

[Griff]

You've also motivated this independent voter to rearrange who he'd vote for and that harms the GOP unless I see the moderates push back. I don't like Obama even a little after the NSA revelations, continued CIA nonsense in the Middle-East, and ongoing drone attacks but no way does he share fault on this one. Congress had already passed compromise legislation and one unhappy little group of douche-bags tried an end run around the system because they didn't like the compromises that earned the votes.

[glatt]

OK, enough about the politics. What about me? What about glatt?

My metro train was very crowded today. I didn't get a seat. Welcome back, federal workers.

[infinite monkey]

Does anyone actually read adak's shillshit anymore? You do know he posts that stuff so the odd googler will come along and half believe him, don't you? He's on somebody's payroll, for sure.

[infinite monkey]

Does anyone actually read adak's shillshit anymore? You do know he posts that stuff so the odd googler will come along and half believe him, don't you? He's on somebody's payroll, for sure.

Hey Adak, have a modicum of respect for the office, will you, you anti-american fuck?

(cue adak talking about his fake service and other feats of magic he's performed.)

Sorry you lost! Better luck next time!

[glatt]

The paper today was talking about winners and losers.
I think the only winners here are China. And we in the USA are all losers.

Oh, and if tw really moved his money around to profit on a default, maybe he's a loser more than others. How did that go tw? Did you take a big hit?

Originally Posted by tw

Ironically, I make money if the wacko extremists do make America fail. Says how much faith I have in Cantor and the boys.

[infinite monkey]

That isn't new: China has been working towards owning us for years and years.

I, for one, won't welcome our creepy sneaky overlords.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by glatt

Yeah, well, the debt graph is boring. It just keeps going up exponentially. The deficit graph is where the real data is, because you can see how government policy and economic factors work together to increase the debt slightly or rapidly.

The reason I point it out is because the Afghanistan and Iraq wars never showed up in the budget. They paid for through Emergency Spending Measures, not that they were emergent or unforeseen.

Originally Posted by glatt

I think the only winners here are China. And we in the USA are all losers.

Yep.

Question: Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

Answer: The U.S. debt is more than $16.7 trillion. Most news headlines focus on how much the U.S. owes China. And, in fact, China is the largest foreign owner of U.S. debt. However, the biggest single owner of national debt is the Social Security Trust Fund, aka your retirement money. How does that work, and what does it mean?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

That isn't new: China has been working towards owning us for years and years.

I, for one, won't welcome our creepy sneaky overlords.

Don't worry, our super massive over the top excessive superfluous defense contractor piggy bank military will keep them from owning us.

[glatt]

Except all our machinery uses chips and ICs they manufacture, and they have a secret backdoor kill switch built in to each one.

[henry quirk]

"So you love it that extremists are playing right into China's hand. "

Nope. What I loved what the possibility folks might see for themselves they don't need as much 'governing' as they're told they do.

What I loved was the possibility folks might see the politicians need them a helluva lot more than they need the politicians.

What I loved was the possibility that ludicrous amounts of scrip might stop being spent on horseshit.

China: fuck 'em...what they gonna do? Without the U.S., China goes back to being just a Third World hole.

All moot anyway...*shrug*

[henry quirk]

"This was the most boring government shutdown EVER!"

"you anti-american fuck"

HA!

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"So you love it that extremists are playing right into China's hand. "

Nope. What I loved what the possibility folks might see for themselves they don't need as much 'governing' as they're told they do.

What I loved was the possibility folks might see the politicians need them a helluva lot more than they need the politicians.

What I loved was the possibility that ludicrous amounts of scrip might stop being spent on horseshit.

China: fuck 'em...what they gonna do? Without the U.S., China goes back to being just a Third World hole.

All moot anyway...*shrug*

Great. Right up until the part where a bunch of children actually starve for lack of food aid programmes; old people actually freeze in the coming winter because they cannot heat their homes, and a rash of small businesses are crippled by the soaring cost of borrowing.

You may not need that much government, but there are a fuck of a lot of people who do in fact need government.

Government didn't expand because it is some hulking beast wanting more and more. It expanded because the alternative to doing so would leave some people for dead. It expanded to fill the gaps left by libertarian and free market ideologies. It expanded to facilitate the broadening out of society's benefits to all Americans and not just those who successfully rode the financial surf.

Now, I daresay you'd be quite comfortable with all that. Survival of the fittest, no passengers, no such thing as fairness idyll.

I honestly don't know what it is you expect to happen if the government were to suddenly shrink to the bone.

[Happy Monkey]

Good news everybody!

Originally Posted by Rep. John C. Fleming (R-LA)

“But that will get us into Round 2. See, we’re going to start this all over again.”

[henry quirk]

"Great. Right up until the part where a bunch of children actually starve for lack of food aid programmes; old people actually freeze in the coming winter because they cannot heat their homes, and a rash of small businesses are crippled by the soaring cost of borrowing."

I get it: I (and folks like 'me') are supposed to carry 'them' because they can't carry themselves.

Make me.

#

"You may not need that much government, but there are a fuck of a lot of people who do in fact need government."

And that’s 'their' damned problem.

#

"Government didn't expand because it is some hulking beast wanting more and more."

'It' expanded 'cause the mercenary wanted more (more power, more control). To that end: generations were taught (are being taught) that bigger government is better government, that governance of the minutia of living is a necessity, and that no individual can do without the 'guidance' of 'authority.

Utter horseshit.

#

"...the alternative to doing so would leave some people for dead"

An unsavory truth (fact): some folks need to die.

If X can't fend for him- or her-self, and X has no one who WANTS to help him or her, then X needs to go.

To demand I care for X is theft (of my time, resources, and self...fuck that noise).

That folks like you have to force folks like me is theft, Dana.

No other assessment makes sense.

#

"I honestly don't know what it is you expect to happen if the government were to suddenly shrink to the bone.”

First, it'll never "suddenly shrink to the bone". Like smack in the vein: it's 'needed'.

Second, if it did "suddenly shrink to the bone" I expect lots of folks to suffer...some die; some make it through (and are better for it).

#

"Survival of the fittest"

HA!

You write it as though it were a bad phrase.

It's not bad or good...just what 'is'.

Folks like you wanna insulate themselves from it...good luck with that.

#

Tell you what, Dana: if children starving and old people freezing bother you so much, devote your time, resources, and 'self' to saving them.

Why do 'I' have to participate?