Gay Marriage

[OnyxCougar]

I could go ON and ON and ON about Jesus, about the old testament, the new testament etc.

If you do, post the whole story, and not just the bits that make Him look bad. Post the context of the verses. Anything else makes it very easy for me to punch big holes in your arguments.

I'm not saying I don't have a problem with some things in the bible (one of which I still can't get over), but I welcome a thoughtful, (non personally insultive) debate. I'll take the pro-bible side. And we should probably move this to the philosophy (God of the Bible) thread.

[lumberjim]

i think we should start a new thread...this belongs in religion

[quzah]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I can't think of any instance where a follower of God's word offered up a human sacrifice to God. God offered Jesus up for sacrifice, and that supreme sacrifice is what stopped all other sacrifices, because Jesus became the "Lamb of God." The "wages of sin is death" rule is STILL in effect, but now the difference is that Jesus suffered that death for us. Hence, why he is called the redeemer.

Did you purposefully ignore this quoted text then?

Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return ... will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." ... and the Lord gave them into his hands.... When Jephthah returned to his home..., who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! And he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
-- Judges 11:30-32, 34, 39 (NIV)

I didn't look it up, just reading the thread. But it sure looks that way to me. Unless "I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering" doesn't mean what it sounds like it means...

Quzah.

[slang]

Update: I'm better than halfway done with this monster. The HTML tags are in, half of the links are in and I checked to see how the test page looks on the cellar (in this format).

This isn't nearly as good of a job as I'd like to crank out, however, I have put a lot of time and effort into it. It will be posted tomorrw regardless of it's completeness (so I can go on to do other things, like sleep).

Someone please kick me squarely in the testicles should I come up with this idea again. Didn't I say that last time I made a mega post?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by wolf


:blink:

Did he just hijack the thread back ON topic? Well, closer, anyway?

Of which thread in this tapestry do you speak?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by preacherswife2u


I'm sorry, Happy Monkey (it feels strange to address you that way. I'm Jennifer, btw.), but that is just the nature of christianity. I do not oppose homosexuality just to be a contrary party-pooper. But rather, I stand against it because of what that sin will mean in the lives of the people who embrace it. I care far too much for all of mankind, just to let sin permeate and wreak havoc.

Also, I find it hard to "not support" something without "opposing" it at the same time. [/b]

Ah, the heart of the problem that most of us have with "fundies". Rather than live and let live you want to "save" everyone that doesn't follow your teachings. Historically it's been a short step from wanting to "save" people (poor misguided heathens) and "the end justifies the means" type of proactive missionary.
I'm not saying that you personally would do that, but the religion you support has manifested itself in that form repeatedly and I've never met a Christian Clergy or devout Christian that didn't think they knew what was best for ME.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by jinx


Well, I think jim has already pointed out that the money thing is incorrect. I can also think of quite a few of my own friends who have very impressive degrees and don't make anywhere near $80K.

What I want to provide my kids with is confidence a desire to learn more. If they choose to go to college, believe me, I'm all for it. I think your point though, is sometimes true. But I don't see aquiring a token degree as all that difficult either - and definitely not something to plan a chidhood around.

No, what he has shown is there are exceptions. There always was and will be, but that's a tough thing to bet on. With the disappearance of good paying manufacturing jobs the squeeze is getting worse. I most office scenerios you need a degree to get an interview even if they are going to train you to do things their way. Of course you could groom the tyke to marry for money...Oh, he doesn't look like Jim does he?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally posted by preacherswife2u
I am sorry if I gave the impression that I consider people, living a homosexual lifestyle, to be inferior. That could not be further from the truth. I believe that all people are fearfully and wonderfully made by God. I would also not want to support such a person.

I didn't mean to point that at you. I was trying to make an on-topic example, and made it too simplistic.

I'm sorry, Happy Monkey (it feels strange to address you that way. I'm Jennifer, btw.), but that is just the nature of christianity. I do not oppose homosexuality just to be a contrary party-pooper. But rather, I stand against it because of what that sin will mean in the lives of the people who embrace it. I care far too much for all of mankind, just to let sin permeate and wreak havoc.

Feel free to call me Matthew.

xoxoxoBruce said it already, but I'll take a stab at it, too. That is not a good reason to oppose gay marriage on a governmental level. If you feel the need to save people's souls, the correct route is to prosteletize and attempt to convert people, and then provide religious arguments to members of your church. Religious arguments should not be used to determine public policy. Religious convictions can be a reason for a particular person to look for and make legal arguments, but there are no nonreligious reasons to oppose gay marriage. If your only argument is religious, then you shouldn't be making laws based on it. This is not a theocracy.

Also, I find it hard to "not support" something without "opposing" it at the same time.

Really? I find it very easy. For example, I do not support massive handgun ownership, but I realize it is a right that people have, so I do not oppose it.

[elSicomoro]

Boy punished for talking about gay mom

[quzah]

Originally posted by sycamore
Boy punished for talking about gay mom

To which the boy should have replied: "Fuck you!"

Quzah.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by sycamore
Boy punished for talking about gay mom

Good grief! Simply outrageous!

"A 7-year-old boy was scolded and forced to write "I will never use the word 'gay' in school again" after he told a classmate about his lesbian mother, the American Civil Liberties Union alleged Monday."

"A teacher who heard the remark scolded Marcus, telling him "gay" was a "bad word" and sending him to the principal's office. The following week, Marcus had to come to school early and repeatedly write: "I will never use the word 'gay' in school again."

Glad I'm not a parent..they'd have to put me UNDER the jail for what I would do to those bigoted freaks.

[Whit]

      I'm going to have to disagree with doing anything really nasty, Rho. I think that like, well, all bigotry, this is based on ignorance. Shredding the idiots doesn't solve the problem. Frankly, the school needs to be educated. Educating without the use of physical harm is preferable as it tends to stick in the mind better.

[quzah]

Originally posted by ladysycamore
Good grief! Simply outrageous!

The following week, Marcus had to come to school early and repeatedly write: "I will never use the word 'gay' in school again."

Glad I'm not a parent..they'd have to put me UNDER the jail for what I would do to those bigoted freaks.

This is rather amusing if you think about it. The teachers had him come to school early and lie repeatedly. Consider writing:

"I will not use the word 'gay' in school again."
"I will not use the word 'gay' in school again."

Ok, the first one is clearly a lie, since you just wrote it after you said you wouldn't. This would repeat until the end of the process. Thus you end up lying N-1 times, where N is the number of times you were instructed to write it.

On a related note, these teachers were definately ignorant, since there's clearly another use for the word 'gay'. Additionally, they'd better hope they don't have to do a report on Marvin Gay or... yeah you get the point. Absurd.

Quzah.

[Dagnabit]

Frankly, the school needs to be educated.

Who will educate the educators?

[Whit]

      Good question, I believe that it is officially the school boards job. It's also the school boards job to make sure they themselve are educated enough to respond properly. So, I doubt any more will come of this. Save, of course, the effect on one boy that has been forced to act in a way that suggests his understanding of the world is bad, bad as in leaning towards evil way. (By writing that crap on the board) Besides, who cares about how badly one boy is hurt when protecting proper moral structure? Can't worry about being good to people when making sure people are good after all. (If you didn't catch the sarcasm in that please put me on your ignore list)