93 Year Old WWII Vet Freezes to Death at Home...

dmg1969 · 01-27-2009, 12:49 PM

after his electric use was limited by the power company due to an unpaid balance. How sick is this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090126/...llYXItb2xkZg--

Sundae · 01-27-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

"I've said this before and some of my colleagues have said this: Neighbors need to keep an eye on neighbors," Belleman said. "When they think there's something wrong, they should contact the appropriate agency or city department."

Sadly, this is the only answer. If he was not in a position to come to an agreement with the electricity people - and older people often aren't, having been raised to obey orders and respect authority - then there are no warning signs for the electricity company.

They cannot know whether the user lives with children and grandchildren who are capable of dealing with this, whether he is short of funds and refusing to pay, whether he needs social care. They are a business after all.

I do feel this is very sad (we have cold weather payments in this country to help the 60+ and higher for the 80+) but it could happen here as well. I'd like to think that our OAPs would at least have daily carers that they could speak to, but tbh my Grandad often only mentions things in passing. Like to Mum - there's wires coming out of my bedside lamp. X (carer) mentioned it the other week. Mum went off her nut - why didn't you TELL me?! You could have been electrocuted! And straight off to Argos to get a new one, all the while blaming herself for not checking every single appliance in Grandad's bungalow on her daily visits.

footfootfoot · 01-27-2009, 01:08 PM

I like this part: "[Bay City Manager Robert Belleman]... said Bay City Electric Light & Power's policies will be reviewed, but he didn't believe the city did anything wrong."

Maybe we need to rethink our definition of wrong and right.

glatt · 01-27-2009, 01:28 PM

It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.

Shawnee123 · 01-27-2009, 01:38 PM

I agree. Can't a little humanity remain, even if it is business?

chrisinhouston · 01-27-2009, 01:38 PM

Our paper reported that those that found him also found his bill on the kitchen table with a large sum of cash paper clipped to it, so it seems he was going to pay it.

I wonder if he served with Patton's army when it went through Germany in the winter, he might have believed he was reliving that experience.

This article also quotes the medical person doing the autopsy as saying he died a slow and painful death but I think I've read that death by freezing is not so painful as you just slip off into a sort of coma.

TheMercenary · 01-27-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.

I agree, regardless of what he did in the 40's.

lookout123 · 01-27-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.

Why?

it is a business designed to make money. While this outcome is terrible, the reality is it is not the company's responsibility to provide anything for free. The man, family, friends, or neighbors should have been able to spot a problem and take the proper steps to prevent this.

Shawnee123 · 01-27-2009, 01:42 PM

Just...humanity?

lookout123 · 01-27-2009, 01:45 PM

Then where should we set the line cutoff line for those unable to pay and those unwilling to pay?

dmg1969 · 01-27-2009, 01:46 PM

I could be mistaken, but I believe PA has a law against utilities being shut off if there are children in the home. I know it doesn't apply in this case and it's a different state, but the arguement can be made...if so for children, why not for seniors. He was 93 for Christ's sake!

Edit: I believe the PA law is if there are children in the home AND it is winter. Should have been more clear.

TheMercenary · 01-27-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

Why?

it is a business designed to make money. While this outcome is terrible, the reality is it is not the company's responsibility to provide anything for free. The man, family, friends, or neighbors should have been able to spot a problem and take the proper steps to prevent this.

It could be a problem of population density and city living as well. I know in places that you tend to live close together more people are apt to just mind their own business, and most want you to stay out of it. And then there is the assumption that someone else is always doing the thing that you considered doing yourself, like checking in on the old guy from time to time.

lookout123 · 01-27-2009, 01:49 PM

Do you really think there was some guy sitting at the power company laughing with his buddies and saying, "Watch this poor old bastard. He made it to 93 but I got him now."?

If noone had spoken with the company to raise flags then what are they supposed to do?

***
Mind you I'm not arguing in favor of freezing 93 year olds, but the knee jerk reaction towards the evil company is a little overdone.

dmg1969 · 01-27-2009, 01:51 PM

Found this in a news story from KDKA...

Under the law, utilities can shut off your service for failing to pay your bills -- even in the winter.

There are exceptions -- for medical reasons, of course -- and here's a big exception.

From December 1st until March 31st, utilities cannot be shut off if your family income is below 250 percent of poverty.

That means for a couple, utilities cannot be shut off if family income is below $35,000 a year. For a family of four, there can be no winter shut-off if your family income is below $53,000.

dmg1969 · 01-27-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

Do you really think there was some guy sitting at the power company laughing with his buddies and saying, "Watch this poor old bastard. He made it to 93 but I got him now."?

If noone had spoken with the company to raise flags then what are they supposed to do?

***
Mind you I'm not arguing in favor of freezing 93 year olds, but the knee jerk reaction towards the evil company is a little overdone.

I think if the electric company is going to take such a drastic measure in the middle of winter, they should damn well know who is in that house. That's all.

01-27-2009, 12:49 PM	#1
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	93 Year Old WWII Vet Freezes to Death at Home... after his electric use was limited by the power company due to an unpaid balance. How sick is this? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090126/...llYXItb2xkZg-- __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

01-27-2009, 01:08 PM	#3
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	I like this part: "[Bay City Manager Robert Belleman]... said Bay City Electric Light & Power's policies will be reviewed, but he didn't believe the city did anything wrong." Maybe we need to rethink our definition of wrong and right. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

01-27-2009, 01:38 PM	#5
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I agree. Can't a little humanity remain, even if it is business? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

01-27-2009, 01:42 PM	#9
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Just...humanity? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

01-27-2009, 01:45 PM	#10
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Then where should we set the line cutoff line for those unable to pay and those unwilling to pay? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

01-27-2009, 01:28 PM	#4
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.

01-27-2009, 01:38 PM	#6
chrisinhouston Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,857	Our paper reported that those that found him also found his bill on the kitchen table with a large sum of cash paper clipped to it, so it seems he was going to pay it. I wonder if he served with Patton's army when it went through Germany in the winter, he might have believed he was reliving that experience. This article also quotes the medical person doing the autopsy as saying he died a slow and painful death but I think I've read that death by freezing is not so painful as you just slip off into a sort of coma.

01-27-2009, 01:46 PM	#11
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	I could be mistaken, but I believe PA has a law against utilities being shut off if there are children in the home. I know it doesn't apply in this case and it's a different state, but the arguement can be made...if so for children, why not for seniors. He was 93 for Christ's sake! Edit: I believe the PA law is if there are children in the home AND it is winter. Should have been more clear. __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

01-27-2009, 01:49 PM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Do you really think there was some guy sitting at the power company laughing with his buddies and saying, "Watch this poor old bastard. He made it to 93 but I got him now."? If noone had spoken with the company to raise flags then what are they supposed to do? *** Mind you I'm not arguing in favor of freezing 93 year olds, but the knee jerk reaction towards the evil company is a little overdone. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

01-27-2009, 01:51 PM	#14
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	Found this in a news story from KDKA... Under the law, utilities can shut off your service for failing to pay your bills -- even in the winter. There are exceptions -- for medical reasons, of course -- and here's a big exception. From December 1st until March 31st, utilities cannot be shut off if your family income is below 250 percent of poverty. That means for a couple, utilities cannot be shut off if family income is below $35,000 a year. For a family of four, there can be no winter shut-off if your family income is below $53,000. __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

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