ICK....

[Lady Sidhe]

What's the deal with Britney Spears getting a star on the walk of fame? Isn't talent a prerequisite for a star? I wasn't aware that falling out of your clothes and projecting a trampy image to a bunch of children was considered talent (Madonna notwithstanding)... I mean, she can't really sing as well as all that, not enough to get a star. Popularity really doesn't mean much when it comes to talent (sometimes the majority just means all the stupid people are on one side). Considering what it takes to stay big in the music business, and considering that she doesn't have what it takes, I predict that in a few years, no one's going to even remember her name. I can see it now...a bunch of tourists scoping out the walk and going, "Britney Spears? Who's THAT?"

Frankly, I'm insulted for all the musicians out there who DO have talent, who HAVE been around for a long time, and who have been passed over in favor of a no-talent teenybopper who only got a star because she happens to be popular NOW.


Lady Sidhe

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
What's the deal with Britney Spears getting a star on the walk of fame? Isn't talent a prerequisite for a star? I wasn't aware that falling out of your clothes and projecting a trampy image to a bunch of children was considered talent (Madonna notwithstanding)... I mean, she can't really sing as well as all that, not enough to get a star. Popularity really doesn't mean much when it comes to talent (sometimes the majority just means all the stupid people are on one side). Considering what it takes to stay big in the music business, and considering that she doesn't have what it takes, I predict that in a few years, no one's going to even remember her name. I can see it now...a bunch of tourists scoping out the walk and going, "Britney Spears? Who's THAT?"

I have to chuckle when I hear people say that. She has made a big enough impact on American culture (not enough for a star, agreed) for people NOT to forget who she is, I'll give her that.

I mean, if people still remember Vanilla Ice....

[juju]

The songs the industry makes her sing are indeed very sub-standard. But I think she's an extremely good singer.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
What's the deal with Britney Spears getting a star on the walk of fame? Isn't talent a prerequisite for a star?

No, not talent, fame.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by juju
The songs the industry makes her sing are indeed very sub-standard. But I think she's an extremely good singer.

Not too crazy about her singing, but love her dancing skills. Very Janet Jackson-like (and Janet is.my.GIRL!!!!). She tore it up in the "Slave for U" video.

[Lady Sidhe]

>>The songs the industry makes her sing are indeed very sub-standard. But I think she's an extremely good singer.

So why doesn't she write her OWN songs, if she's so talented?

Which leads to another pet peeve *grins*...with all of the talented groups and individuals trying to "make it" in the music industry, why are they CREATING bands (like N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys) and singers? This whole Disney Groups Creation is just a sad commentary on the declining standards for art. I mean, they INVENT a band, write some songs, then FIND cute or pretty people who have a modicum of talent to be a part of the band and sing the songs. After that, they shove these songs down our throats by playing them over and over and OVER, ad nauseum, until we can't get them out of our heads and mistakenly think that, because we know all the words, that we actually LIKE the song, and subsequently, the ahem, "artist" or group.



>>I have to chuckle when I hear people say that. She has made a big enough impact on American culture (not enough for a star, agreed) for people NOT to forget who she is, I'll give her that.

I mean, if people still remember Vanilla Ice....


Yeah, but people remember Vanilla Ice with an amused chuckle, not as an "artist" *grins*, and he never got a star. How, specifically, has she made a big impact on American culture, as opposed to the other teenybopper bands (like the created Backstreet Boys and N'Sync)? Not that I'm saying she hasn't...maybe I just haven't SEEN it. I look at all the "here today, gone tomorrow" stars who are touted as "brilliant" or "going places" or some such superlative drivel. They're all people can talk about, until the next "brilliant" young actor catches the public's eye. Hollywood and the music industry kinda remind me of a line from the Eagles "New Kid in Town":

"They will never forget you 'till somebody new comes along..."

I mean, anyone can learn to dance, and it doesn't take talent to fall out of your clothes. I certainly don't want MY daughter taking this person for a role model. I just have a hard time condoning a star for that kind of behavior. People bitch and moan all the time about how no one respects women, and blah blah blah, and yet they lionize a girl who's barely old enough to live on her own, who teaches our kids that popping out of your clothes is oopsie-funny, and thus ok, as long as you sing and dance while you do it. I've always thought that if you wanted to be seen as and treated like a lady, you should act like one. I'm only 32, so one can't really say I'm "old fashioned." I mean, what's wrong with teaching girls to act like ladies? Being a lady doesn't mean you're repressed and cold and no fun. It means you conduct yourself in a mature way that demands respect.

I just have a problem with a kid, who most definitely is not an appropriate role model, and who really isn't any better than the hundreds of other singers out there, getting a star on the walk of fame. It implies, to me, that she's done something worthy of such an honor, when she really hasn't. I have a friend who sings opera. This woman has sung for ROYALTY in Europe. She was trained by a professional opera singer. She can also sing other types of music. I think she sings much better than half of the musicians out there, and ya know what? Not once has she had to pop out of her clothes to have people say, "oh my god, you have the most beautiful voice!" or, "Damn, you're talented!"



Lady Sidhe

[juju]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
>>The songs the industry makes her sing are indeed very sub-standard. But I think she's an extremely good singer.

So why doesn't she write her OWN songs, if she's so talented?

Because she's trapped in a record contract that she'd've done anything to get?

I think sexuality in our culture is continuing to change, and Britney Spears is a very large part of that. Whether or not parents want their teenagers idolozing and emulating her and her midriff, they certainly seem to be. Based on that observation, I'd say she's having quite a large influence on our culture.

[insoluble]

They have to give out one a month - A lot of no names have them. Hell even Dom Delouise and Pee Wee Herman (not paul reubens) have them.

[vsp]

Never mind "talent" -- don't you need "accomplishments," too?

She had two smash-hit albums with a handful of hit singles. The third album had somewhat lower sales. The fourth album tried to reach out to an older audience, with even less commercial success.

Am I talking about Britney Spears or Debbie Gibson?

Now, Debbie Gibson wrote her own material, choreographed her dancers' routines, switched to "Deborah" and ended up with a nice little stage career, including two minor stints on Broadway.

Britney has one feature film (a relative flop), had a few Pepsi commercials, and is sitting squarely on that "What do I do _now?" career-path decision. In America, just being a celebrity is sort of a career of its own, but if you stop producing anything substantial... well... the top row on "Hollywood Squares" starts to beckon. Or porn. Whichever.

[Lady Sidhe]

>>Because she's trapped in a record contract that she'd've done anything to get?

I think sexuality in our culture is continuing to change, and Britney Spears is a very large part of that. Whether or not parents want their teenagers idolozing and emulating her and her midriff, they certainly seem to be. Based on that observation, I'd say she's having quite a large influence on our culture.


Ahhh...but if she's so popular and has done so well, she should be able to name her price, so to speak. I mean, she's got a star now...she should be able to pick and choose.

Sexuality may be a part of our culture, and I don't have a problem with that. However, children should not be exposed to a hooters wannabe. It makes them think it's ok to do it as well. We talk and talk about how our kids are getting out of control, and about the rate of teen pregnancies, and unwed mothers and the like, yet we support the things that our children watch that influence this kind of behavior. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Britney Spears for teen pregnancies and unwed mothers. But I am saying that the culture she and other musicians (such as violent rap influencing a "thug" mentality in some kids) influence our kids in that direction because of the image they portray. The kids want to be LIKE them, and if being like them means showing your boobs, or carrying a gun, or bad-mouthing cops and women, the kids will do it, because they want to belong.

And you know, when my daughter moves out and supports herself, I don't care what she does. She'll be a grown woman with, hopefully, the sense to make her own decisions. Thus far she's shown an amazing capacity to ignore silly behavior in others, and do her own thing, and she has two unconventional parents...so I'm heartened.

I don't have a problem with a girl baring her tummy...that's not a big deal. It's not her midriff I have a problem with.


I realize this has kind of gotten off the subject...lol...but the influence that musicians have on our kids is a good subject, too.

Sidhe

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
>>The songs the industry makes her sing are indeed very sub-standard. But I think she's an extremely good singer.

So why doesn't she write her OWN songs, if she's so talented?

Well, if I'm not mistaken, even Whitney Houston didn't write her own songs, and she's WAYYYY better than half of these heffers out there now (although she could stand to lose Bobby Brown and reclaim her crown as queen diva..lol).

*snip*

I mean, anyone can learn to dance, and it doesn't take talent to fall out of your clothes. I certainly don't want MY daughter taking this person for a role model.

How old is she? Who does she admire now (besides you, of course)?

I've always thought that if you wanted to be seen as and treated like a lady, you should act like one. I'm only 32, so one can't really say I'm "old fashioned." I mean, what's wrong with teaching girls to act like ladies? Being a lady doesn't mean you're repressed and cold and no fun. It means you conduct yourself in a mature way that demands respect.

Well, treating women with disrespect started long before Britney Spears was even a thought. And what's wrong with saying you're old fashioned? Hell, I KNOW I'm old fashioned regarding some things because that's how I was brought up (I'm 34). It's all about the home training in many cases.

I just have a problem with a kid, who most definitely is not an appropriate role model, and who really isn't any better than the hundreds of other singers out there, getting a star on the walk of fame. It implies, to me, that she's done something worthy of such an honor, when she really hasn't.

I feel the same way about Eminem winning Grammys and other awards. When he won his Grammys, I was like, "For WHAT??" I felt he didn't do anything THAT special regarding hip hop. To me, he sounds like a whinny white boy who wants attention by being outrageous.


*sigh* But, what is one to do? The envelope has been pushed. How does society "fall back" to the "good old days"? Or, is it even possible at this point...

[OneWittyWoman]

If I'm not mistaken (and I could very well be) the Walk of Fame Stars are nothing more than a campaign - if someone raises enough money to buy the Star then they get it. I seem to remember reading that in an article about David Cassidy.

[Lady Sidhe]

I agree wholeheartedly with the Eminim thing. I mean, a couple of his songs are kinda funny (I've only heard a couple on the radio, but I have a DJ friend who subjected me to *ugh* more than I wanted to hear.) Nah, I don't care much for Eminim...his music is too disjointed to me...terrible beat, and you can't dance to it *grins*...and he's got the whole violence thing going on, too.

I liked Whitney Houston back when I was in high school, but it seemed that the more music she put out, the more she started yelling at me rather than singing. Maybe I'm just getting old...you know what they say, if it's too loud, you're too old....And I agree with the thing about Bobby Brown...he's about useless. She either needs to kick him to the curb or knock him down so that he doesn't get back up. That's not being a very good role model for girls, either, letting a man beat up on you again and again. I mean, anyone can get into the position of being in an abusive relationship, often before they really realize what's happening...but nowadays, especially for people with money, it's a lot easier to get out of that kind of position. Women like Whitney, who have lots of money, don't need to depend on their partners for support, like a lot of poorer women who are in abusive relationships do. I think that if she'd do something decisive about Bobby Brown, she'd be a very good role model for girls, showing that you DON'T have to put up with that kind of nonsense...from ANYONE.

I realize that we can't go back to "the good old days," and to reference another song, "The good old days weren't always good..." But just because we can't build Rome in a day doesn't mean we have to settle for not trying to build it at all. If we keep popularizing and lionizing behavior that we would not allow our kids to engage in, we're just reinforcing the message to them that this kind of behavior is ok. That's the bottom line. Our kids idolize musicians, and as long as musicians get rewards for engaging in lewd, violent, or other inappropriate behaviors, our kids are going to want to copy them.

Now, I'm not one of those people who wants to censor everything. You wanna sing about killing cops and beating women? Fine. But you know what? I don't have to support you, and my child won't even know that you exist, so long as I control what she is exposed to. You want to dress and act like a tramp? Go ahead, but again, I won't listen to your music, and my kids won't either. I won't help you get a star or a platinum record you don't deserve. So long as a musician engages in violent, trashy, or unacceptable behavior, I don't care how well they sing or play an instrument. I guess that's the bottom line for me.

The music is really secondary to kids...what they see first is the artist, and the easiest way for me to build my Rome is to filter what my daughter is exposed to until she's got enough sense to do it herself, which, if her behavior now is any indication, she'll have plenty of sense and probably won't listen to half of what's out there *grins*

If a kid sees that her favorite singer lets a man beat her up over and over and keeps going back to him, what kind of idea is she going to have about what relationships should be like? If she sees her favorite singer dressing like a tramp and making all kinds of money for doing it, what's she going to think about what is and isn't acceptable dress? If a kid hears his favorite singer singing about killing cops and beating women, and sees him in the news getting arrested for assault, how will that affect his behavior? I know that we are our kids' first role models, but when they begin to be independent, they look to movie stars, sports stars, and musicians...and our movie stars, sports stars, and musicians make money out the wazoo while they're dressing like streetwalkers or being arrested for drugs, assault, murder, and other bad behavior. And lots of times, they get out of the charges. THEN they go platinum, and get a star. What's that telling our kids??

It's actually kind of sad, when I think about it....

*sigh*

Sidhe

[juju]

I don't think you CAN filter everything. It seems like it would be an impossible task. Unless they just never leave the house.

It seems to me that the only thing you can do is try to prepare them for when they do encounter it.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
If a kid sees that her favorite singer lets a man beat her up over and over and keeps going back to him, what kind of idea is she going to have about what relationships should be like? If she sees her favorite singer dressing like a tramp and making all kinds of money for doing it, what's she going to think about what is and isn't acceptable dress? If a kid hears his favorite singer singing about killing cops and beating women, and sees him in the news getting arrested for assault, how will that affect his behavior? I know that we are our kids' first role models, but when they begin to be independent, they look to movie stars, sports stars, and musicians...and our movie stars, sports stars, and musicians make money out the wazoo while they're dressing like streetwalkers or being arrested for drugs, assault, murder, and other bad behavior. And lots of times, they get out of the charges. THEN they go platinum, and get a star. What's that telling our kids??

It's actually kind of sad, when I think about it....

Quite honestly, this kind of thing reinforces one of the many, many reasons that I *don't* have kids and makes me appreciate all that MY parents did for me to keep me on the straight and narrow path (well...relatively straight and narrow path..heh!).