Discrimination

[warch]

On the financial side, the black guy might have access to all sorts of scholarships the white guy does not.

I still see it as a wash, cause the white guy might have access to all sorts of scholarships the black guy does not.

The bias underlies a tradition of bars that still live. The arguement is really whether or not we've reached a level. In terms of color, dont think so, yet. Its so economically/educationally tied. And AA is just one aid. Hopefully someday though.

I actually do think so in terms of overall populations of women. AA has worked well. I think I read that more women graduate college than men these days. With the help of stuff like title 9, girls are kicking academic and actual butt in HS too. Some careers maybe underrepresented, but perhaps not for long or not because there are continued bars to access.

I have run into a tiny bit of gender, patronizing crap on the job, mostly when I was younger from older men and women. Eh. Nothing lately. There are the ongoing cultural time warp shits, like "why dont you have kids?", being a target of male attack walking at night, "dont be such a bitch" when you are simply stating an assertive request... geeze!

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by russotto
By "certain whites", I mean that some of those now considered whites were ALSO historically discriminated against.

If you want a level playing field, step one is to stop distorting it.

And how does society go about doing this?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by ladysycamore


While I agree, I again find it ironic that after 8 years, someone NOW has a problem with the award:

I've had a problem with things like this every time I've seen it. This is just ONE example that actually made it to the news that I managed to catch.

"The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration."

So do they have a "Jesse Helms Award" that white kids exclusively can win? Can you imagine the outcry if they did?

So I'd say that the white student doesn't qualify based on the fact that the award is meant for a "black" student. Plus, since many people are so bent on dictionary definitions:

Main Entry: Af·ro-Amer·i·can
Pronunciation: "a-frO-&-'mer-&-k&n
Function: noun
: an American of African and especially of black African descent
- Afro-American adjective

*When you look up "African-American", it directs you to "Afro-American".*

My focus is the "especially of black African descent", because society (for the most part) knowns and understands that Af/American means "black".

Many may not agree with that, but I have yet to hear of a white OR black African who is now an American citizen call themselves "African-American". They normally identify themselves by culture or ethnicity.

It also seems to me that no one didn't have THAT much to say about the term "African-American" in the beginning, but for some reason NOW it causes certain people to have meltdowns galore!

Oh Come ON, Rho!! Blacks in America started telling everyone that "I prefer the term African-American, thank you." It became Politically Incorrect to call black folk "black". In fact, I personally witnessed a mexican get beat down because he REFUSED to call a black person "African American". American Blacks wanted to "maintain their cultural identity", and so took the hyphenated name. Then all the rest of the minorites took up the call and decided to hyphenate. Mexican-American, Chinese-American, Japanese-American.

And then, as now, it caused this same argument. We're ALL American, and I've held that view then, as I do now.

If people want to be known as just "Americans" then everyone needs to be treated like one.

I completely agree!! And I think that, again, going back to the post, is that blacks pushed so hard to be "African-American", that now the term is equated with blacks, but now we see a case where a person from Africa, a real "African-American", was denied an award because of his race.

My point here, boiled down to the bottom line is that the IDEA of giving an award to ONLY blacks is racist, whatever you call it, or whatever day you give it on.

If it's for "African-Americans," then the white kid should have been included as a selectee. If it's for black kids only, then call it for what it is: the "Black Kids Only" award. (Which makes my daughter ineligible, cuz she's part white.)

THAT is the problem I have with it. Using your quote of the article as an example, "The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration." that is racist. Bottom line. Shame on that school.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
Also, if you want to cry racism, why don't you focus on the Mormons? They have a mentality that having black skin is a mark of evil and you will never enter one of their 7 (yes, seven) heavens. Marrying a black person would get you excommunicated. Talk about one fucked up religion. (gag) Also, have you noticed that all Mormons are Caucasian? I'll never live in Utah.

There are only 3 levels of heaven, in order,

Terrestrial (kinda half heaven, you don't get to hang with Jesus or God, but you aren't in hell.),

Telestial (you get to hang with Jesus but not God), and

Celestial (you get to hang with God).

And I can post pictures of one the Mormon Elders that completed his initiation into our ward by riding down my apt stairs in my kid's toy box. He happens to be very black in color.

Be sure of your facts before you post.

[elSicomoro]

"(insert ethnic background here)-American" was around for quite some time before "African-American."

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by sycamore
"(insert ethnic background here)-American" was around for quite some time before "African-American."

Agreed. But most didn't start INSISTING they be called that instead of black. In fact, Malcom X, before he was assassinated, created the Organization for Afro-American Unity. So hyphenated names have been around for a long long time. It was only relatively recently that you had to use that or be considered insensitive to their culture. (PC)

[tikat]

People say that my roommate "doesn't act black enough". As if his personal taste in music and his speech patterns should be somehow genetically pre-determined.

The line seems pretty clear to me:

skin pigment: nature
culture: nurture

I've even heard people say that Brian doesn't act enough like "his people", as if they get to decide who "his people" are. I'm "his people". His friends are "his people", and our basically geeky, sci-fi and anime watching, roleplaying culture is "his culture". True, he didn't choose us based on skin pigment or eye color or left handedness or some other arbitrary genetic link, but I think he's chosen well.

I'm not sure what about this thread got me thinking about that.

[juju]

I'm going to reiterate this point so that you folks might have another chance to recognize its brilliance.

In every case I've seen where someone possessed discriminatory thinking and had a change of heart, that change of heart came about after getting to know the people they were discriminating against. <i>Every case</i>. I can only guess that they realize we're not all that different after seeing their commonalities.

This fact could easily be exploited to reduce discriminatory thinking.

[wolf]

But the whole idea of the WB network seems to have backfired, juju ... perhaps if the programming didn't suck, we could learn to all just get along.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Oh Come ON, Rho!! Blacks in America started telling everyone that "I prefer the term African-American, thank you." It became Politically Incorrect to call black folk "black". In fact, I personally witnessed a mexican get beat down because he REFUSED to call a black person "African American".

Well goddamnit then, that particular black person was incredibly stupid, now weren't they? I'd like to know how that one incident have anything to do with me or any other black person that doesn't make others call us Af/American...

American Blacks wanted to "maintain their cultural identity", and so took the hyphenated name. Then all the rest of the minorites took up the call and decided to hyphenate. Mexican-American, Chinese-American, Japanese-American.

Hyphenation is not new. I'll let Sycamore explain in a later posting.

I completely agree!! And I think that, again, going back to the post, is that blacks pushed so hard to be "African-American", that now the term is equated with blacks, but now we see a case where a person from Africa, a real "African-American", was denied an award because of his race.

Hrm...when he was in his homeland, he was known as something else, but once coming here, he's more than happy to be Af/American...interesting. Wonder when he decided to be that...when he left Africa? When he arrived? When some kids decided to put his face on a poster for an award?

My point here, boiled down to the bottom line is that the IDEA of giving an award to ONLY blacks is racist, whatever you call it, or whatever day you give it on.

Ok, let's say that suddenly all that is put to rest. No more special awards. In fact, just no more awards..everyone is good and special. How does that addresses the issue of racism? I keep hearing "take away this and that" but let's say you do that, the problem still remains and I don't hear anything about resolving THAT.

If it's for "African-Americans," then the white kid should have been included as a selectee. If it's for black kids only, then call it for what it is: the "Black Kids Only" award. (Which makes my daughter ineligible, cuz she's part white.)

THAT is the problem I have with it. Using your quote of the article as an example, "The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration." that is racist. Bottom line. Shame on that school.

Apparently, the community didn't have a problem until now, so they must have thought it was ok.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
But most didn't start INSISTING they be called that instead of black. In fact, Malcom X, before he was assassinated, created the Organization for Afro-American Unity. So hyphenated names have been around for a long long time. It was only relatively recently that you had to use that or be considered insensitive to their culture. (PC)

Who says that most insist on being called "African-American"?

Yes, some will be offended if they are not referred to by that term, but based on the literature out there (including that of organizations like the NAACP), it would seem that "black" is still OK to use.

(Rho's stance is as follows: "As long as you don't call me nigger")

Besides, the usage of words changes over time. Would you call a black person a "colored" or a "Negro" today? I suspect not. Maybe one day, white folks will become incredibly offended when the term "white" is used to describe them.

And think about why some folks might prefer the term "African-American" to "black." Think about all the connotations that can come from the words "black" and "white." I can't say I blame any black folk that want to use the term "African-American."

Of course, who the fuck cares what they call themselves anyway...

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by ladysycamore
Hyphenation is not new. I'll let Sycamore explain in a later posting.

Some Latinos in the southwestern US referred to themselves as "Spanish-Americans" in the early part of the 20th century, even if they didn't have a drop of Spanish blood in them...because they were ashamed of being Mexican.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by ladysycamore


Apparently, the community didn't have a problem until now, so they must have thought it was ok.

Careful Rho, your stereotyping. You have no idea what he was or what he was called in Africa.

Apparently, the community didn't have a problem until now, so they must have thought it was ok.

Not necessarily. They might not have liked it or thought it was stupid by not wanting to be deemed politically incorrect kept quiet, like so many do today. It was the kids that found a loophole in the rules to say the emperor had no clothes.
Actually we have no way of knowing if these kids were just acting on a technicality as a joke or really wanted to make a statement against what they thought was a bad idea.
Everyone will interpret it to align with there own feelings.

[elSicomoro]

I personally think it was a joke...I don't think any malice was intended. (It sounds like something I would have done in high school.) But why suspend them for it? It could wind up leaving a bitter taste in some folk's mouths.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Not necessarily. They might not have liked it or thought it was stupid by not wanting to be deemed politically incorrect kept quiet, like so many do today.

True, but:

--We don't know the background of this community.
--Silence is golden.