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Philosophy Religions, schools of thought, matters of importance and navel-gazing |
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01-29-2011, 07:11 AM | #16 | |
I love it when a plan comes together.
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Your world view consideration works when there's enough food to go around. When there isn't and it becomes a matter of life or death, the instinct for survival kicks in and the concept of "mine" develops as one of many coping mechanisms organic to the human organism right along with the fight or flight response. |
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01-29-2011, 07:15 AM | #17 |
still says videotape
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Imma add this to my reasons for owner-building.
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If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
01-29-2011, 08:37 AM | #18 | ||
UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION
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01-29-2011, 09:59 AM | #19 | |
~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~
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If it is a human right then owning property is best under a capitalist society. (In general) You have more human rights under a capitalist society and therefore, have more THINGS or the potential to have more things, and the control in selling, bequeathing, renting, and to gain profits from property rights, or ownership of THINGS. or ( property ) |
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01-29-2011, 10:33 AM | #20 |
still says videotape
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I believe that all natural rights are a social convention. I would not want to live in a society where these convention were inactive as it would be destructive of human progress. We adhere to these conventions because of self-interest, the threat of state or individual violence, belief in the divine, or a rational belief that it makes for a predictable orderly society. Mankind does not walk its path hand in hand with any inherent "rights" one has only to look at the rise of totalitarianism in the 20th Century to realize that the threat of violence is superior to any rights. The best we can hope for is that superior power stay in the hands of those who support human rights.
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If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
01-29-2011, 06:07 PM | #21 |
Doctor Wtf
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I do not believe in any "natural rights". IMHO, all rights are derived from social conventions and an implicit social contract. Rights are human inventions.
So given current exchange rates, there is my 1.98 cent's worth.
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Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl. |
01-29-2011, 06:48 PM | #22 |
to live and die in LA
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I have no idea what these two statements mean when placed side by side. If all rights are convention, then what are "human rights"? The conventions a society ought to have? Where does that ought derive from?
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to live and die in LA |
01-29-2011, 07:47 PM | #23 | ||
still says videotape
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Quote:
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If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
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01-29-2011, 07:56 PM | #24 |
~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~
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01-29-2011, 08:01 PM | #25 |
Doctor Wtf
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And this is one of the most wonderful, amazing things about human history - that at least sometimes, those with superior force have used their force to establish a system that accords rights to all, not just themselves. Justice, rather than bullying.
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Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl. |
01-30-2011, 05:11 AM | #26 |
I love it when a plan comes together.
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Some consider natural law and natural rights to be that which corresponds to the spontaneous order that develops in the absence of social conventions and what individuals would do independently of each other, still being rational people, through the use of individual unorganized force to protect their property. Use of individual unorganized force in consonance with the nature of humans and their world would not indicate that the person using such force is a danger to a reasonable man. Natural law and natural rights are discovered whereas social conventions are invented. Natural law and natural rights derive from the nature of humans and their world just as physical law and properties derive from the nature of matter, space, and time. They follow from the kind of animal that we are and all animals know or can discover what they need to do in order to lead the life that they are physically suited to live. Some see natural law and natural rights as still being a real force that constrains the lawless arrogance of sociopaths as well as some government officials.
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01-30-2011, 08:32 AM | #27 |
still says videotape
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Consider that humans, while they can be individualistic, generally grow up in or along side familial groups, like Stewarts, Hapsburgs, or Hanovers, which can bring organization to force. Discovered rights are discovered in the context of there discovery, in other words, they are social conventions. [imho]
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If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
01-30-2011, 06:03 PM | #28 |
I love it when a plan comes together.
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The discovery of natural rights can be accomplished by directly observing the behaviors of other animal species in nature with which we have no social conventions. Even today, a no-tech individual in an isolated area could glean whether or not an indigenous water/food source is likely to be potable/edible and that it is something to be protected (scarce) by observing the behaviors of other animals around it. If other human contact occurs and the resources are sufficient, then that protection can be extended through social conventions which may even include conservation. Consider that contemporary conservation is not just about maintenance; but, the expectation of new discoveries in nature that may in turn cause a single individual to discover another natural right, individually act to protect it, then seek further protection through social conventions. The cycle continues. While the knowledge and assertion of rights today is predominantly learned indirectly by passing original discoveries down through the generations and social interaction with others, it doesn't refute the continuing existence of natural rights as they are renewable to each person as circumstances require.
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05-30-2011, 08:16 AM | #29 |
still says videotape
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Looks like the New York Times wants to join the argument.
There are two avenues by which to address the truth of the natural basis of human rights: (a) whether authors argued for human rights before the European Enlightenment, and (b) whether there is a logical basis for human rights that would demonstrate its applicability to all people regardless of when it was recognized to be correct.
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If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
05-30-2011, 08:24 AM | #30 |
trying hard to be a better person
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I've been having this vague, slightly incomplete thought about rights for a long time. In a nutshell it's something like; is a right yours if you don't recognize it as such. ie if you live in a culture that doesn't teach you to expect certain things, then is what you're missing out on a right or just something you'd like.
I guess it comes down to whether rights are a social construct or not, but people seem to have different ideas about what they have a 'right' to.
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