Bridge Collapse

[yesman065]

Bridge Collapse Survivors Tell Their Tales

Amid the collapsed concrete, eyes were immediately drawn to one thing: a yellow school bus.

"We ran up the incline. There was a school bus full of 8- to 14-year-olds and we literally had to carry them off the bridge," said one survivor who was on the I-35 highway in Minneapolis when it collapsed into the Mississippi River.

[elSicomoro]

I didn't read about this until midnight last night...fuck! It's awful...but I was amazed that some people were able to swim to safety. That's why humans kick ass.

[Undertoad]

Hoping warch is ok she works next to that bridge!

[Griff]

Oh man, me too.

[warch]

I'm ok. Surreal night though. I was walking across the stone arch bridge- next bridge north of 35 just few minutes after the collapse. We werent sure what was going on. We were walking into downtown because we had Guthrie tickets, and knew of the construction and Twins traffic, so we were just gonna walk.

We crossed over 35 just north of the collapse and noticed southbound was stopped and northbound was empty. We thought it was construction/twins related jam or an accident.

It was clear in a minute that it was big, not just a fire or traffic accident. We couldn't believe what we couldn't see- no span, only the 10th st bridge and it was hard to make sense of the metal and what was road or should be road.... Everyone was just in shock. Surreal.

We weren't really close to the rescues but also couldn't really get back over to the east bank, as we would just tangle in the rescue vehicle stuff which was growing, so after gawking in confusion, continued across and went to the Guthrie. Saw the play in a surreal mode. During intermission the view from the theater windows (right on the river overlook) we could see the whole mess and could start to imagine the toll. We had some somber drinks and stared for a while away from the collapse, towards the lovely skyline.

The emergency response was huge and fast and amazingly organized. That impressed me. They closed the stone arch bridge, so a few hours later we walked back over Hennepin, finally seeing some of the coverage (and returning panicked phone messages) around midnight. Oh, and the almost full moon hung right over the collapse site, glazed a dark red.

Still waiting to see more about the victims. The river rescue staging area is near my workplace.

thanks for the concern guys.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You were the first thing that came to mind when it came on the tube last night. Glad you're OK.

[Aliantha]

This disaster has had fairly major coverage over here too.

It's amazing that so many have survived. What a miracle.

[tw]

Originally Posted by yesman065

Amid the collapsed concrete, eyes were immediately drawn to one thing: a yellow school bus.

Demonstrated is a difference between what yesman065 saw and what I saw. That yellow school bus: time to worry about it was long ago when this failure was predictable. Whereas contents of that bus were immediate concern to those on the bridge, instead, the rest of us should be worrying about all school busses.

A bridge fails in America every week. That human created failure typically traceable to top managment - politicians who are responsible for bridge maintenance. NYC's Williamsburg bridge was discovered on the verge of collapse into the East River. Why? During Mayor Lindsay's term back in the 1960s, to make budgets balance, then all future maintenance of that bridge was terminated for something like 25 years. Bean counters want glory - new bridges. They cannot be bothered to maintain what already exists. After all, they are only doing what we want. And many of us care so little as to only read Daily News and not even watch the local gossip TV news.

Many are more worried that news is depressing rather than learn the news to protect that and future yellow school busses.

So are important questions about this bridge. First, as I understand it, an identical bridge sits adjacent. Is it also failing? When was an emergency inspection conducted - and by whom?

Second, this bridge was jammed with bumper to bumper traffic - mostly cars. That means a static load - not a 'heavier' dynamic load - composed of even lighter vehicles. Therefore stresses were not greatest when it collapsed. Furthermore, surface construction was ongoing implying that one lane was closed. Another 20+% reduction in weight.

Rather strange that a collapse would occur under lighter loads. Is the adjacent bridge also under threat of collapse?

Third, Federal inspectors reported serious structural problems in 2005. But MN state inspectors later said that bridge was OK. This discrepancy will be interesting when resolved. For example, PA replaced highway engineers with bean counters - the Chief Engineer now called Chief Manager. Honest facts is what the NHTSB does. They only investigate - no attachment to political special interests. This bridge must be investigated as a crime scene. A responsible reaction is the same that saw Challenger as murder; not an accident. Death due to cost controls - the stifling of product people - should be regarded as murder; not an accident.

Again, these are random thoughts based only in tidbits. For example, if one lane was closed, then was an unbalanced load applied to one side of that bridge causing unusual stresses - a fourth question? Question I don't hear being asked and only based in trivial information heard.

Critical information about that and all other yellow school busses will arrive many days, weeks, or months later. Questions that should cause ears to peek up when answers are being stated in paragraphs lost deep in news reports. Answers that many reporters may completely ignore because they more want to worry about that one yellow school bus and injured people rather than something far more important - *why*.

Week or months later, will we still be interested or will we be more interested in the latest fire or pictures of crashed cars? Do we entertain our emotions or demand resulting facts - the whys?

[yesman065]

tw - I may be having a bad day but your posts and attacks on me are growing quite old. Only you would see the school bus and wonder what could have been done, instead of trying to save them. have you no humanity no caring no compassion or feelings? what the fuck is wrong with you? You are an ass - a hole complete ass.

[Aliantha]

I feel your pain yesman.

[tw]

Originally Posted by yesman065

tw - I may be having a bad day but your posts and attacks on me are growing quite old.

I was wondering how fast yesman065 would perceive a logical post - that attacked no one - as an attack on Yesman065.

Yesman065 - only demonstrated is blunt honest analysis about things technical. Amazing how even that analysis is perceived by yesman065 as an attack.

Amazing is that some regard technical analysis in terms of themselves. Yesman065 - the person called yesman065 was completely irrelevant to what was posted. Two bateria called tw and yesman065 were contrasted and compared. At no time was there an attack on Yesman065 here or anywhere else. But you apply personal emotions to what is only an honest analysis.

Again, demonstrated was how two people perceive the same event completely different. That was the above post. Demonstrated from here on is another fact: how the person Yesman065 (not to be confuse with the test tube creatures tw and yesman065) immediately jumps to an emotional response rather than worry about things logical.

It is part of becoming an adult. The world does not revolve around you. You are no different than anyone else. The post from a bateria called yesman065 was compared to a bacteria called tw. Why would Yesman065 somehow take offense? Having taken offense, the first thing Yesman065 should have asked is why am I being so foolishly emotional?

Appreciate why Yesman065 ends up in conflict with tw. tw does not post to appease emotions. He posts blunt facts without any regard to how one may respond emotionally. tw believes if such blunt postings hurt someone's emotions, well, that person must learn to read technically rather than emotionally. Replacing emotion with a detached and unemotional analysis is what adults do.

Again, that too is not and obviously was never intended to be an insult. Children are quick to see things in terms of themselves. To children, the world revolves around them (as even taught in college psychology). Adults see the world bluntly rational. Adults do not need things worded 'politically correct' because adults do not entertain their emotions.

This post discusses two completely different point. First is that analysis that compares and contrasts how two bateria think. Second is that Yesman065 was so quick to take personal insult where no such insult exists.

[Aliantha]

It's a reflection on how you communicate tw. You are offensive in the way that you form your arguments/points.

Of course you don't see that.

Perhaps you should try.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

It's a reflection on how you communicate tw. You are offensive in the way that you form your arguments/points.

Of course I do. It is not my job to appease the emotions of the more childish. And I am repeatedly blunt about this. I make no effort to be anything but bluntly honest. It also tells me how 'adult' the thinking is behind a reply.

Why do politicians worry about being politically correct? They need votes also from adults who perceive rather than analyze. Why do we elect politicians who lie? Because we want to feel good rather than acknowledge reality.

Again, Aliantha - at no time do I post anything personally insulting. But many 'feel' that insult. Not because of what I have said. Only because so many need words to be carefully crafted to 'appease' their emotions.

Please notice I have repeatedly stated that I make no effort to be 'politically correct'. Also notice I don't post profanity only to post emotional profanity. It is another factor that separates the emotional adult child from one who has decided to grasp reality without emotion.

Posted here was a completely blunt and honest assessment of how two people see the same event differently. Also posted were examples of critical questions that we all (who worry about our peers) should be asking. Why does Yesman065 take insult at what is only a blunt honest analysis? Why does he entertain his emotions rather than grasp the contrasts? No adult worries about how it is worded. But then many adults still view the world as if it revolved around them. Therefore they take emotional reactions rather than grasp the realities - the underlying facts.

I don't word anything to appease. Those who need such wording - well, now I know whether they have grown up enough to realize how trivial they are and how far more important the realities of this world are.

Nothing in my posts even implied insults. Those who take insult need to reassess themselves since inside their head is the only place that an insult exists.

[Aliantha]

No tw, you're derogatory and condescending. That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with the content. It's how you say it as if you're so superior to everyone else and as if you're the only one who actually thought of saying what you posted.

You're not the only intelligent person on this site or in the rest of the world.

You're just like everyone else.

[Uisge Beatha]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

You're just like everyone else.

I happen to believe you're right about everything except that one point, Aliantha. I firmly believe emotions are an integral part of the human experience, not just the trappings of childhood. Since tw seems to be so emotionless, he is different and has a correspondingly different viewpoint.

tw, you may well intend no insult with anything you post, but the situation is complicated by your unique perspective. You don't seem capable of entertaining the emotional responses so common to the rest of us. Even though you imply nothing, we often infer much due to our feelings.