July 16, 2007: Bellyflop 2007 - Page 3

xoxoxoBruce · 07-18-2007, 03:34 AM

They didn't fire on Ft Sumter to protect slavery. The majority of the northern politicians were moderates that wanted to see the spread of slavery stemmed, but were willing to accept a 50/50 split on new states. The handful of abolitionists didn't have the power to put an end to slavery in all the new states, let alone the south.

freshnesschronic · 07-18-2007, 04:35 AM

Slavery wasn't a prime cause for the civil war? Ay chihauhau. That in itself should be a new thread, and it probably already has been.

Also zippy it's just my opinion to ban the flag, that's all. I didn't mean to get anyone riled up.
edit: better yet, I didn't intend to get anyone riled up. But like Bruce said, everyone's offended by something. In my case its the confederate flag and I would like to see it banned. In zippy's case it's my opinion on the confederate flag being banned.

piercehawkeye45 · 07-18-2007, 08:01 AM

I personally don't want to ban the flag even though I don't agree with the heavy use it has today. It is not a government's job to ban symbols.

theotherguy · 07-18-2007, 11:51 AM

This thread took a wrong turn somewhere. I thought it was about some girl with nice, muddy tits.

Uisge Beatha · 07-18-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theotherguy

This thread took a wrong turn somewhere. I thought it was about some girl with nice, muddy tits.

We'd better be careful here. We don't want the government to ban those, either.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-18-2007, 12:27 PM

Just trying to get the coverings off those nice muddy tits.

Kumbulu · 07-18-2007, 01:16 PM

"Oh hey, you got a little something between you're teeth there. Looks like a wee stone."

Gravdigr · 07-19-2007, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

Very true, Flint, very true. Slavery has and was everywhere.

But why should we embrace such savage and uncivilized ideals and philosophies? By still holding onto this confederate flag we hold onto the savage and uncivilized.

We are "post" modern man, and I'd rather not be associated with such a backwards way of life such as slavery. Especially when it brews up racism, hate, intolerance and violence which are such unsophisticated problems in society.

Biker rallies, civil war re-enactments, parades, the only time I've EVER witnessed violence regarding 'the confederate flag' is when someone was trying to keep someone else from flying/displaying it. Never once have I heard/witnessed/heard about someone saying "Yee haw, we got us a confedert flag, let's us have a lynchin'." (Don't let my sarcasm drip on you)

JuancoRocks · 07-19-2007, 11:51 PM

Just an observation .....

The attitude from anyone.... "I don't like it, therefore it should be banned".... is just another example of why our overly political correct country is going to hell in a hurry. Just who the hell are you to determine what should be banned? Your imaginary personal feelings are more important than the history of our country?

The Confederate Flag ~
Over time the flag has acquired a wide range of meanings, some apparently contradicting others. Since the C.S.A. were fighting for independence during the American Civil War, much as the United States did during the U.S. War of Independence, the Confederate flag has always had connotations of rebellion, patriotism, self-determination, dissent, freedom, and liberty.

The flag traditionally represented the South's resistance to Northern political dominance.

It only became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when fighting against desegregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.

These same people want to ban books they don't like, movies, music et cetera...The world should only be as they see it in their narrow minded, perfectly controlled world.

Undertoad · 07-20-2007, 04:53 PM

Michael Yon today

Quote:

Seeing "God is Great" written on the Iraqi flag might provoke some to protest "Why did we come here just to stand up a country who would write such things on their flag?" But I sat there in that meeting, which was completely civil and professional, and I thought about another flag, the one flying over South Carolina. Some people call that flag "heritage," while others call it "hateful," "painful" and "demeaning." And today in that meeting, I thought about the descendants of slaves who are now top military commanders in the American Army, and in that moment I knew that Iraq could make it.

Highball · 07-20-2007, 05:57 PM

Since this thread took a wrong turn somewhere anyway, lets quit beating around the bush and spit out that wee stone.

In the beginning someone said “ban”, “Germany” and “opinion” in one sentence, the contradictory word they forgot to use was “free”. Being so we look forward not backward. The Stars and Bars was the official Confederate flag and it doesn’t mean anything more or less. Now it is a banner and it or the “rebel” battle flag can wave wherever it’s wanted, just not as high as our counties flag. Unless of course you show it disrespect, and we have a history of killing people who disrespect our flag.

We are an inherently free people, all people; and someday we will be that way, an inch at a time. No government, King or legislature gave us that freedom, and we didn’t win it in the Revolution. It is “self-evident” that we are “endowed” by the “laws of nature” as inherently free.

The Civil War was about principals, and the power to control them. The agricultural South was slowly dieing and loosing power, states, votes, electoral votes. The North, politically divided, still elected Lincoln over the South. Most Southern States could not muster enough individual votes to secede, but politically overrode the popular vote with their legislature. Kentucky and Maryland, although Southern could not muster enough support to secede. Much of Tennessee and other “Southern states” were lost because there just wasn’t enough rebellious support to hold on. Slavery was just an outside issue that turned on political control. Yes it was “states rights”, as opposed to “individual rights”, and our Constitution did give our Government the right to preserve those individual rights from all comers, including states.

Call it hat you will, slavery was part of that desire to have control over others, that is slowly lost it’s grip on humanity, again an inch at a time. To “ban” this or that is another effort to control others.

So then which is most important, individual rights or a minorities feelings?, even a Majorities feelings?

You know my vote.

Speaking of minorities, I’m a Nordic WASP, damn small minority these days, few and far between, but do you hear me complain? That’s not “white” cause I’m not white, and it’s not Caucasian, cause my genetic chain has never been anywhere near Caucasia.

Mostly I just want to be belly up at the bottom of that mud hole.

Next book please?

theotherguy · 07-20-2007, 06:05 PM

This is a very interesting thread. I am curious, how many in this discussion are native southerners?

I do realize the discussion is more about history and freedom, but I am am just curious.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-20-2007, 06:58 PM

I don't think vBulletin has a filter to keep them out.

zippyt · 07-20-2007, 07:32 PM

American by birth ,
Southern by the grace of GOD !!!

You know what they say FNC ,
"Opinions are like Assholes ,
Everybody has one and they ALL STINK !!!"

busterb · 07-20-2007, 08:36 PM

Think I'll just keep my

to myself. Thank you

07-18-2007, 03:34 AM	#31
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	They didn't fire on Ft Sumter to protect slavery. The majority of the northern politicians were moderates that wanted to see the spread of slavery stemmed, but were willing to accept a 50/50 split on new states. The handful of abolitionists didn't have the power to put an end to slavery in all the new states, let alone the south. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-18-2007, 04:35 AM	#32
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Slavery wasn't a prime cause for the civil war? Ay chihauhau. That in itself should be a new thread, and it probably already has been. Also zippy it's just my opinion to ban the flag, that's all. I didn't mean to get anyone riled up. edit: better yet, I didn't intend to get anyone riled up. But like Bruce said, everyone's offended by something. In my case its the confederate flag and I would like to see it banned. In zippy's case it's my opinion on the confederate flag being banned. Last edited by freshnesschronic; 07-18-2007 at 04:53 AM. Reason: edited

07-18-2007, 11:51 AM	#34
theotherguy no not that other guy, the other one Join Date: May 2007 Location: TN Posts: 640	This thread took a wrong turn somewhere. I thought it was about some girl with nice, muddy tits. __________________ I should be working.

07-18-2007, 12:27 PM	#36
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Just trying to get the coverings off those nice muddy tits. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-20-2007, 06:05 PM	#42
theotherguy no not that other guy, the other one Join Date: May 2007 Location: TN Posts: 640	This is a very interesting thread. I am curious, how many in this discussion are native southerners? I do realize the discussion is more about history and freedom, but I am am just curious. __________________ I should be working.

07-18-2007, 08:01 AM	#33
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I personally don't want to ban the flag even though I don't agree with the heavy use it has today. It is not a government's job to ban symbols.

07-18-2007, 01:16 PM	#37
Kumbulu Kitten Whisperer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 49	"Oh hey, you got a little something between you're teeth there. Looks like a wee stone."

07-19-2007, 11:51 PM	#39
JuancoRocks Sir Post-A-Lot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Paradise Valley, Arizona Posts: 437	Just an observation ..... The attitude from anyone.... "I don't like it, therefore it should be banned".... is just another example of why our overly political correct country is going to hell in a hurry. Just who the hell are *you* to determine what should be banned? Your imaginary personal feelings are more important than the history of our country? The Confederate Flag ~ Over time the flag has acquired a wide range of meanings, some apparently contradicting others. Since the C.S.A. were fighting for independence during the American Civil War, much as the United States did during the U.S. War of Independence, the Confederate flag has always had connotations of rebellion, patriotism, self-determination, dissent, freedom, and liberty. The flag traditionally represented the South's resistance to Northern political dominance. It only became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when fighting against desegregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance. These same people want to ban books they don't like, movies, music et cetera...The world should only be as they see it in their narrow minded, perfectly controlled world.

07-20-2007, 05:57 PM	#41
Highball Neophyte-in-training Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	Since this thread took a wrong turn somewhere anyway, lets quit beating around the bush and spit out that wee stone. In the beginning someone said “ban”, “Germany” and “opinion” in one sentence, the contradictory word they forgot to use was “free”. Being so we look forward not backward. The Stars and Bars was the official Confederate flag and it doesn’t mean anything more or less. Now it is a banner and it or the “rebel” battle flag can wave wherever it’s wanted, just not as high as our counties flag. Unless of course you show it disrespect, and we have a history of killing people who disrespect our flag. We are an inherently free people, all people; and someday we will be that way, an inch at a time. No government, King or legislature gave us that freedom, and we didn’t win it in the Revolution. It is “self-evident” that we are “endowed” by the “laws of nature” as inherently free. The Civil War was about principals, and the power to control them. The agricultural South was slowly dieing and loosing power, states, votes, electoral votes. The North, politically divided, still elected Lincoln over the South. Most Southern States could not muster enough individual votes to secede, but politically overrode the popular vote with their legislature. Kentucky and Maryland, although Southern could not muster enough support to secede. Much of Tennessee and other “Southern states” were lost because there just wasn’t enough rebellious support to hold on. Slavery was just an outside issue that turned on political control. Yes it was “states rights”, as opposed to “individual rights”, and our Constitution did give our Government the right to preserve those individual rights from all comers, including states. Call it hat you will, slavery was part of that desire to have control over others, that is slowly lost it’s grip on humanity, again an inch at a time. To “ban” this or that is another effort to control others. So then which is most important, individual rights or a minorities feelings?, even a Majorities feelings? You know my vote. Speaking of minorities, I’m a Nordic WASP, damn small minority these days, few and far between, but do you hear me complain? That’s not “white” cause I’m not white, and it’s not Caucasian, cause my genetic chain has never been anywhere near Caucasia. Mostly I just want to be belly up at the bottom of that mud hole. Next book please?

07-20-2007, 06:58 PM	#43
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I don't think vBulletin has a filter to keep them out. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-20-2007, 07:32 PM	#44
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	American by birth , Southern by the grace of GOD !!! You know what they say FNC , "Opinions are like Assholes , Everybody has one and they ALL STINK !!!" __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

07-20-2007, 08:36 PM	#45
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	Think I'll just keep my to myself. Thank you __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

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