Because They've Earned It

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Shocker

Yeah I guess you are right... I mean, anyone who is successful is evil

I was retorting to "they earned it." Those of us who work but choose not to climb the corporate ladder and instead help others also earn our money. We just don't earn as much.

I have nothing against people who earn good money! In fact, I have some family members in that category. I just get tired of the old "if you worked harder you'd have more money" when I have worked hard my whole life (started working on a produce farm every summer at 13, and most of my adult life have carried a second job.) Can't you understand how hurtful that might feel?

[Flint]

ha ha ha I seriously may create some bullshit charts to post, when you're least expecting it, just to see UT go to work de-bunking them.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I was retorting to "they earned it." Those of us who work but choose not to climb the corporate ladder and instead help others also earn our money. We just don't earn as much.

I have nothing against people who earn good money! In fact, I have some family members in that category. I just get tired of the old "if you worked harder you'd have more money" when I have worked hard my whole life (started working on a produce farm every summer at 13, and most of my adult life have carried a second job.) Can't you understand how hurtful that might feel?

working harder makes you more money. working smarter or better makes a lot more money.

people that make the kind of money on that chart are making more for other people, too. big earners not only spend more, and therefore create more wealth for those below them, but very often employ people, and directly effect their wealth. don't knock the filthy rich. we need them more than they need us. ( can you tell i just read atlas shrugged)

[Undertoad]

Working on this, it's really hard to find specific data on personal income broken down by income sector, but what I've found so far suggests that this chart is either built to be specifically misleading or entirely incorrect.

The Census Bureau has some detail on household income through 2001 and the raw data does not like what this chart suggests.

[lumberjim]

remember, 57% of internet statistics are made up.

[DanaC]

working harder makes you more money. working smarter or better makes a lot more money

Some of the hardest working people get paid some of the lowest wages.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Some of the hardest working people get paid some of the lowest wages.

i know. in fact, i would posit that most of the hardest workers make the least. to me, working hard, and being honest is admirable. working hard, and smart, and better than your competitors (for jobs or in business) is more admirable.

I'd rather work hard for $30,000/yr than rely on state support, but if i have the ability to make $300,000/yr by working harder and smarter? pay me.



ps. i don;t make $300,000



yet

[DanaC]

It isn't always a matter of choice though. Some people simply do not have access to the opportunities which wuold allow them to earn $300,000 a year.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by DanaC

It isn't always a matter of choice though. Some people simply do not have access to the opportunities which wuold allow them to earn $300,000 a year.

in the US, at least, everyone has access to the opportunity. many do not have the vision to see it, the intelligence, skill, luck, etc. I have the opportunity to make that kind of dough.....i just haven't realized it yet.

[farfromhome]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

in the US, at least, everyone has access to the opportunity. many do not have the vision to see it, the intelligence, skill, luck, etc. I have the opportunity to make that kind of dough.....i just haven't realized it yet.

I wanted to find a hole in your logic, but couldn't. But I sense no empathy. No concern for those being left behind. There's millions of us former blue collar workers who used to make a living wage who are (not) now. People who like being active. Like working with their hands. But through the rapidly changing demographics of the global economy are finding choices narrowed to an extremely uncomfortable margin.

[farfromhome]

In other words...Is there room left for the people who don't have the dog eat dog mentality?

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by farfromhome

I wanted to find a hole in your logic, but couldn't. But I sense no empathy. No concern for those being left behind. There's millions of us former blue collar workers who used to make a living wage who are (not) now. People who like being active. Like working with their hands. But through the rapidly changing demographics of the global economy are finding choices narrowed to an extremely uncomfortable margin.

what? rapidly changing demographics?

i think what you were saying is that there are people that have lost blue collar jobs because companies have moved their manufacturing outside of the country? well, yeah. that's true. these people did not aspire to be factory workers, though. they did not go to school to learn how to join a union and get paid too much for menial, mindless labor. they got jobs. it was enough. they made a living. bills got paid. everybody's working for the weekend.

who ever told them that they were entitled to an income commensurate with a middle class standard of living for doing a job that could be performed by lower class talent? the jobs that have been outsourced are those that CAN be. trades and skilled labor are as secure as ever, if not more. In my personal experience, i have had difficulty getting a plumber, an hvac service, a general contractor....... it seems like the 'blue' collar worker has a gun to the head of the 'white' collar worker when it comes to service that the 'white' collar worker needs to have done. and they are very well paid for having the skill and knowledge that they have to do the work they do.

you ask if there is room for those that don;t have the dog eat dog mentality? sure. at the bottom, there's plenty of room. this is a free country. do what you want.

if you are happy eating, breathing and sleeping for 80 or so years, it doesn't require a whole lot of effort in america. if you want more, you'll have to earn it.

remember. in other countries, not having the dog eat dog mentality means that you will probably get eaten.

[Undertoad]

If you can find a good HVAC guy, marry him. If you are a guy, gay marry him.

(for once it's ok not to use the she pronoun. there are no women in HVAC)

[Undertoad]

My ex used to work with an illiteracy program, teaching reading to adults. She quit. The last guy who came around to our house to learn to read would drive up in his Corvette. He had his own home refurbishing company and made huge bucks.

[Undertoad]

Sorry about triple posting. I am on LJ's side in this; it's not dog eat dog really, it's about motivation. Jacquelita's kid, without any math abilities, is 19 and has a high school degree. Did not make it into the Navy, he will wind up working with his hands somewhere. I can see clearly that there is nothing "dog eat dog" about his situation; it's merely about motivation. Nobody is clutching and grabbing at his shirt so they can get up over him to succeed. It is all up to him. Nobody wants to see him fail so that they can succeed. If he gets out of bed in the morning, goes out and finds work, and works hard at it, and doesn't do anything stupid, he will get along in life pretty well.

"Dog eat dog" may apply in organizations and companies where people are competing. But to live and succeed in this country you are only competing with yourself. Right now there is an almost permanent labor shortage at the low end, especially in the north where it isn't also addressed by 10 million Mexicans. Labor costs are now the top drag on the economy. It's true that you may not be able to do exactly the work you want, but that's the price we pay for having the sort of economy that relentlessly grows. Permanent change is required; lagging industries must close, succeeding businesses must be allowed to succeed and failing businesses must be allowed to fail.