Daycare(angry rant)

[John Adams]

This diatribe was brought to you by a posting on another forum. Since that forum is a support forum for those of us with similar medical issues I thought I would bring it over here.

A grandfather posted an email he received from his daughter. She was talking about a bully in the granddaughters daycare. In her email she complained about how she was sitting in starbucks drinking a latte (I don’t even know what that is) and she couldn’t even enjoy it because she was thinking about the bully.

She is a self-centered me oriented waste that shouldn’t have a child. She dumps the kid at daycare and goes to have a latte and complains she can’t enjoy it? WTF?? I know not everyone agrees with me but if you are going to have a child you need to raise that child! Do whatever you have to (legally) to be a parent. I am the proud husband of a stay at home mom. It isn’t easy, I don’t have a new car, we don’t go out to eat, we don’t spoil ourselves but we are there for our children. OK, so now you will probably say I am out of it, I don’t understand what it is like to raise kids in today’s economy. Well I have a 4 YO and 7YO and neither one has even been with a babysitter. Except for school for the older one my wife or I have ALWAYS been there with our kids. I don’t make a huge income but somehow we manage to get by. I see all our neighbors dumping the kids off with the grandparents or daycare and going off to work, meanwhile they have three cars for the two of them and spend money on ridiculous items like season tickets to some sports team (help me out here: they are the Georgia Dogs? What is that?). Why do you need to go to some sporting event? Take the kid to the park, you don’t have a long time before they would rather be with their friends, take advantage of the time they want to play with you. Every Thursday I go to lunch with my 7 YO and every Friday I take my 4 YO out to lunch and then to the park. Every weekend the kids pick what they want to do and we do it. Sound expensive? It doesn’t cost much to go ride bikes or take a hike. And yes, those are the type of activities they enjoy. Every night I read to my kids and my wife keeps them occupied during the day. My 7 YO is the youngest in his class (just makes the cutoff) and he is the most advanced (already finished the 3rd grade requirements ) and he is reading the books off the fourth grade reading list. Why? Because we spend time with our kids!

This justification just sickens me, “but we have to work two jobs, it’s so hard in todays economy: Bullsh.. if I can do they can certainly do it.

End Diatribe

[Hoof Hearted]

I don't have any children, but I have pets. 11 cats and 1 horse so I understand the need for budgeting the household finances. We do have three vehicles for just the two of us, but all are paid for. Mine is a 1978 that we've had for 16 years, husbands two are a 1975 (<1 year) and 1997 (5 years).
We don't see the need to keep-up-with-the-Jones' trend of one-upmanship in the possessions department. We keep our things in good working order and they take care of us.

I have to agree with you...if they aren't going to raise their kids, I don't feel people should be having them. Problems arise when the TV or strangers are raising them.
Unfortunately, my idea of having to be licensed to become a parent will never fly...too many crack-heads would lose their welfare.

[DucksNuts]

I dont have a problem with parents *choosing* to put their kids in daycare if they are going to work/better themselves.

I dont have a problem with parents putting their kids into daycare to have a break either.

I dont agree with parents putting their kids into daycare so they can do their own thing all day every day and not parent at all.

Thats mainly based on my knowledge of the child care system here.

Its subsidised, ANY parent can get a rebate of up to $3.15 per hour (means tested) and even parents that dont work are entitled to up to 20 hours subsidised child care per week.

Problem is, childcare is waaaaay overloaded here, the waiting lists are huge. Working parents *do* get priority but that fact that everyone is entitled to some form of child care makes it very hard to push your way into a centre thats full.

In fact, the government has recently introduced that the SAHP (Stay at home parent) *must* seek work of up to 20 hrs per week, once the children are of school age.

I'm afraid, I would much rather see a motivated parent that is obviously driven enough to want to work ....take the option of putting their children into childcare and still exercise their right to *breed*....than the person that wants to stay at home and breed for the sake of not working (and in Australia's case, collect the $4k *baby bonus*).

I just think the motivated/driven Parents gene contribution would be alot more beneficial to society on the whole and as childcare centres are (generally) really well monitored here, so the children are getting more good than harm from being in care.

Add the social interaction skills they pick up, as well as the things they would probably not experience in the SAHP environment, and I am VERY pro childcare.

That said, I dont have a negative opinion of SAHP that choose not to work and raise their children themselves.

[John Adams]

Originally Posted by DucksNuts

In fact, the government has recently introduced that the SAHP (Stay at home parent) *must* seek work of up to 20 hrs per week, once the children are of school age.

I'm afraid, I would much rather see a motivated parent that is obviously driven enough to want to work ....take the option of putting their children into childcare and still exercise their right to *breed*....than the person that wants to stay at home and breed for the sake of not working (and in Australia's case, collect the $4k *baby bonus*).

I just think the motivated/driven Parents gene contribution would be alot more beneficial to society on the whole and as childcare centres are (generally) really well monitored here, so the children are getting more good than harm from being in care.

Add the social interaction skills they pick up, as well as the things they would probably not experience in the SAHP environment, and I am VERY pro childcare.

Obviously things are different. You imply in your statements that stay at home parents are lazy and working parents are not. Just out of curiosity have you tried to raise a child? No I don't mean that in a confrontational way, I am just curious. It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to raise a child. Our children have plenty of play dates and more then enough social interaction, they participate in team sports and other activities (cub scouts etc). My wife works with the kids every day advancing their studies, As I said earlier my oldest is far beyond his peers, he is even in the gifted program. We are raising our children with our morals and work ethics not the socialist mentality that seems to pervade your response. "it takes a tribe to raise a child" mentality, Sorry don't buy that. It is a way to lower the morals and independent thought of the next generation to strengthen government so they can steal more power. The government has dictated how much a stay at home parent has to work? That really blows me away, they have forced children into daycare, they have forced them into the government indoctrination. Oh almighty goverment what shall my children do for a living? what house shall they live in, what car shall they drive? Please oh grand and glorious government tell me. What about home schooling? I guess that is against the law as well. Jessie Jackson is working on outlawing homeschooling over here even though it has been consistently shown they outperform other children in the same age group. No we don't exclusively homeschool, my oldest enjoys school. Is it against the law for someone to own something that someone else can't afford? If not it sure sounds like it is coming.

I don't get any kickback from the government to raise my child nor is it the responsibility to provide it. I do however get to keep more of my own money. Last year I only had to pay a little over $20,000 in taxes.

Like I said though, my response is not meant to attack you it's just your system is very different and has blown me away, I didn't realize Australia was that far down the socialist road.

[Sundae]

John Adams I think you missed the point. I don't know the exact situation, but my reading of the post suggests Australia pays child benefit. In order to claim this benefit, parents of children OF SCHOOL AGE must work 20 hours a week. In no way does this force children into daycare.

As you didn't link to the original comments (or quote verbatim) it's hard for me to get riled over the woman drinking a latte and worrying about her child. Surely she could have been on a lunchbreak, or waiting for a meeting or any number of other reasons to be having a coffee while her child was in daycare.

In principle I agree with you, because of how I was raised myself. My parents both worked, but they worked shifts. There was always someone home and we had a far better time of things than any of my friends - especially those who only saw their fathers at weekends.

But I totally understand why parents want to earn the money to maintain their lifestyles, and spend quality time with their children.

If I was relying on the wage of a partner who earned what I do now, I certainly wouldn't be able to bring up a child except in the most basic terms ie second hand clothes, value brands of all products (as opposed to brand names) no holidays etc. I find it hard to afford treats for myself alone, and I choose to have two jobs for that reason. If that wage was stretched 3 ways, we would be living a life that was considered by most people to be about 20 years out of date.

Would I do it? Possibly. I'm not materialistic. I'd love to give a child the creativity and imaginiation that come from "mend and make do" and the self discipline that comes from not getting what you want when you want it (well, my brother & sister learned that - I went the other way as an adult!)

In the most ideal of all worlds I'd prefer a partner with a better job than mine, a part time job or evening job for myself. That way I could get the bus home when my legs are tired, or suddenly decide to go to the seaside on Sunday without worrying about the petrol, or to be able to buy my child some tacky piece of rubbish from a street seller because I never got those things when I was younger.

But that's my decision if and when it happens, and it's my hypothetical child. You can't have it both ways. You can't rant about the Govt telling you how to raise your own children and then try and tell other people how to raise theirs.

[John Adams]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

John Adams I think you missed the point. I don't know the exact situation, but my reading of the post suggests Australia pays child benefit. In order to claim this benefit, parents of children OF SCHOOL AGE must work 20 hours a week. In no way does this force children into daycare.

Rereading her post I don't think that is the only thing I misssed, but hey, I never claimed to be perfect.

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

But that's my decision if and when it happens, and it's my hypothetical child. You can't have it both ways. You can't rant about the Govt telling you how to raise your own children and then try and tell other people how to raise theirs.

You are absolutely right, it is hypocritical of me to tell others how to raise their children. I have a very low opinion of day care in general, I just can't see them providing the love and attention to the child that the child needs. I know there are some day care workers out there that truly care. My wife had worked at one when we first got married and she gets instantly attached to every child, it tore her apart working there every day and seeing what went on, and this was supposed to have been one of the better ones. BUt I truly believe that children need to be raised by their parents. What bothered me most about the original post was how the mother came across as more upset about not being able to enjoy her latte then being upset that the child was in day care, it would tear me apart if my kids were in day care, I would feel like a complete failure.

[Undertoad]

Also, some kids are better off in daycare than with their actual parent(s) because their actual parent(s) are morons.

[Hoof Hearted]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Also, some kids are better off in daycare than with their actual parent(s) because their actual parent(s) are morons.

Hear! Hear!

[John Adams]

Well it is official: I am a complete and utter asshole. Yes that's right. I could not be a bigger asshole if I tried. I have just found out that the father/husband is currently deployed in Iraq. I am the lowest of low. My deepest and most sincere apologies to the person I was originally going off at. How I could be that incredibly judgemental of a family making such a huge sacrifice, it is just unacceptable.


And yes I also agree that some kids are better off in day care for the same reason.

[Clodfobble]

I think your initial instinct did have some merits, though: regardless of of whether her child should be in daycare, or how she came to be enjoying a latte, if her child is being bullied she should be too concerned to enjoy it, at least until she's talked to the daycare and made every effort to solve the problem. Daycare can be fine as long as it doesn't replace parenting entirely; just because your kid is with someone else doesn't mean you can stop thinking about them.

[Stormieweather]

I've been a single mother (unwed), a married, employed mom and am now a stay at home (also work from home) mom. My oldest two children attended daycare while I worked to support the family. My little one stays at home with me all day/night.

I think there are pros and cons to any arrangement. Both older children were initially placed in daycare homes but they proved to be disasters. The in-home daycare providers either had unsafe conditions, ignored my instructions, parked the kids in front of the tv all day or left the children in a fifthy state. I eventually found adequate (more than) daycare schools for both of the older ones.

My oldest (son) blossomed in preschool. His vocabulary tripled in mere months, his social skills began to develop and his motor skills improved. He was writing the alphabet by age 3 1/2. The structure and wide variety of activities stimulated his intellect and was the best thing I could have done for him. He graduated high school 2 years early.

My middle child (daughter) was the daycare darling. Several of the teachers treated her like their own child and came to her birthday parties, babysat her on occasion and had portraits made with her. She made friends in that daycare that she has attended school with up to this very day. I've been careful to live within the proper school district so she won't lose that continuity.

For several of the years these two were in daycare, I worked two jobs, one full time and a second one a couple of evenings a week, part time. It was that or get public aid, and I'm too independant to let someone else support me. Does that mean I shouldn't have had children? That I don't deserve my children? Or that my children grew up unloved or ignored? I don't THINK so. I took the responsibility for them and did what was necessary to take care of them.

I don't think sticking a child in the nearest or cheapest or most expensive facility works either. I had my daughter in one expensive daycare that was very exclusive, had the newest and best of everything, had tons of beautiful, lacy teddy bears on display and many of the local court and police employees put their children there (judges included). Problem was, they treated the kids as objects to be arranged and rearranged, and no one was allowed to touch all the pretty 'things'. Oh, and they had a head lice problem. After much research and many interviews, I removed my daughter and put her in a different one. Their equipment was old and battered, but clean. The staff knew and treated each child as special and unique. They were open and generous and loving. It was far better for my child.

I now stay at home with my 17mo old, but I also work from home as an independant contractor. My 4th grader is now home with me after school as well. My partner works 6 days a week, 11 hours a day so that I can do this. We pinch pennies until they squeak and manage to get by. The problem is, I never get a break. We have no extended family within 100 miles so there is no one to take the kids off my hands for a couple of hours so I can relax and recharge my batteries. It would be wonderful to be able to go out for a latte once a month. Hiring a babysitter takes money we don't have to spare, so I don't see it happening. We've analysed the financial benefits of my going back to full time work and the net gain is simply not worth it. So I continue to drive my 1992 Buick, live in a rented house and play online games as my form of escapism. At least, until I lose my contract, when the decision will be out of my hands.

So, I say...don't judge another until you have walked a day in their shoes. Do what is right for you and your family and don't assume to know what is best for anyone else.

Stormie

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by Hoof Hearted

Unfortunately, my idea of having to be licensed to become a parent will never fly...too many crack-heads would lose their welfare.

I support you!
I have a cousin w/ 3 children. All born w/in a year of the previous. To an abusive man who happens to be a cousin of some degree (she met him at a family reunion!). She has left him, but he still gets to babysit them, alone. This past year she has been hospitalized for meth usage. She spends money like crazy possessions instead of paying bills. I can't hardly stand her...but I do love all 3 of the kids, and they are the only reason anyone in my family still suffers her pressence. At least until my aunt (her mom) calls CPS and has custody of the children herself. Not sure if its gonna happen anymore, but she was a signature away from giving her children up to her mom this past year. Then her (over twice her age) b/f changed her mind. His direct quote to my aunt "I fell in love w/ your daughter, as a Mother." If thats his idea of mothering then its no wonder his own grown children can't stand him.

[fertilegypsy]

Interesting thread. I was going to open with... OMG, a LATTE, you say?!, but, I thought that would sound a bit harsh coming from a newbie. Seriously, though, mothers and fathers deserve to take a break from their children, and what they choose to do while on that break is their own business. It doesn't make them unfit. It doesn't mean their children are being neglected.
I have been both a stay at home mom, (I had quite a few children in a row...hence the 'fertile' in my name) and a daycare provider. Not Mary Poppins, (I loathe uniforms ), but still quite sought after and respected. My advice to anyone out there using daycare would be to find someone who is licensed. This usually means they have been finger printed and cleared through a background check, and have had training in 1st aid, CPR, and, possibly, nutrition. When interviewing, even if you like what you see and hear, please go home and call all the references you were given. I can't tell you how many people don't bother to do this! Also, during the interview tell the provider you will be dropping in, unexpectedly, from time to time. And, then, actually do it. As soon as you suspect there is a problem of any kind, immediately bring it to the caregiver's attention. Let her/him know how concerned you are. If you have gotten lucky and found a real Mary Poppins, show your appreciation with a generous tip. Gifts are nice, too, but most daycare providers are underpaid.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

Hiring a babysitter takes money we don't have to spare, so I don't see it happening.

Are there any other parents in your neighborhood? I occasionally "trade" time with friends who have kids--they watch my kid for a couple hours, and on another day I do the same for them. Free for everyone!

[Flint]

A childcare co-op. Great idea. My wife was in one, as a child I mean.