God Spare New Orleans

[Brett's Honey]

Originally Posted by Elspode

It is going to be very, very interesting to see how the Bush administration wriggles out of this. The N.O. Mayor is going to have to be neutralized for sure. Is there a sacrificial Louisiana Congressman who can also take a fall for the team?

Yes, it will be very interesting. Sad, but interesting. I'm sure the reason Bush was on TV tonight in Mississippi hugging young black girls who had lost "everything" (but looked to me like they had showered and eaten recently) was because he would just "be in the way" in NO.

[warch]

In the blur, stories that stick:

The Convention Center with the elderly and babies in the heat. One nurse there doing her best.

Charity Hospital, critical patients, including those being hand ventilated for days, no relief, wait and watch while Tulane's staff, able bodies, are completely evacuated from across the street. Charity's sick must wait another day. Public vs. private.

Hiatt Regency guests arrive at the Superdome where thousands were still waiting days for their turn to leave by bus and are allowed to jump to the front of the Superdome evacuation bus line. The haves and the have nots.

One New Orleans fire department/division has been working from boats, basically on their own, in the 9th ward and has rescued over 900 people from roof tops. Amazing heros.

Grassroots relief: Citizens driving into MS with food caravans of their own. No red cross in sight.

Separated families.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Who will take it from you
We will and who are we
We are volunteers of America

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brett's Honey

I just watched Fox - the O'Reilly Factor and Hannity and Colmbes....losts of criticism of the Louisiana governor and N.O. mayor, followed by a lot of praise on Houston's excellent organization and ability to meet the immediate needs of all of the people they've taken in.

You should have seen right through those half truth lies as they left the lips. Houston is a larger city that only took in a few ten thousand people. AND all facilities were intact and functional. They could even tap their sururbs for assistance. To praise Houston, wait till they have to take in a second hundred thousand refugees. Only then does aid becomes challenging. Ahhh. But what is necessary to lie? Fox News must forget to provide numbers - not put the disaster into perspective. Perspective is not what a 'black and white' propaganda service wants to report.

Everyone is asking about busterb. Rumored to be that bad even about 1/4 up the state and just southeast of Jackson MS. Houston has all suburbs intact. Bay Springs is reported to take three hours just to rescue local folk. How does the LA or MS governor get aid to New Orleans when even way north in Bay Springs, it takes hours to rescue people. New Orleans nor LA even have suburbs for support.

Glaring fact. Louis Armstrong International airport that is right at the disaster location is all but empty. A nation chock full of C5A, C17, C-130, and C-141 transport aircraft as well as others such as 747s and DC-10s sent how much aid into the city by air? When asked why military planes were not providing such assistance, well, the federal government never asked. George Jr never asked. Where is Fox News on this story? Its called lying by telling half truths.

When it is declared a federal disaster area, the #1 organization for all decisions and action is FEMA. A responsible president is taking all FEMA calls personally. But George says it's ... hhhaaaarrrrddd.

Learn the lessons of history. When Andrew went through FL, some reservist friends were transported to Harrisburg to man the large military storehouses there. They sat there doing nothing. One reported the entire FEMA request was for one tent and a few generators. Meanwhile, about 5 days later, a FL county official found some press people and said, "Send everything you have now. People will be dying in hours."

Deja Vue. FEMA's response in FL after Andrews was just as pathetic as its response in New Orleans. A response one can expect from people who are promoted because they are politically correct - and therefore don't have a George Patton attitude of solving problems. But again, these deaths were more than ten years ago. How many forget back then how FEMA let people die. Appreciate the angry look behind Ted Koppel's eyes as the FEMA director repeatedly avoided or would not even answer hard questions. Only anti-Americans would have acted as FEMA and this administration have. So bad was the response that accusations of racism or second class citizenry cannot be ignored.

Where are these supporters of George Jr now that the meddle of the man is tested. His response to this hurricane is just like he ran his oil company business and just like the "Mission Accomplished" war. No oil was found, the investors lost everything, but George Jr got rich. Leave it to Fox News to lie again about the integrity of the man - and blame the victims.

[wolf]

Is the airport actually viable? Are the runways intact and inspected? And is the transportation infrastructure intact to be able to get stuff FROM the airport, or would a bunch of quartermasters be sitting around scratching their asses watching food spoil because you can't get it to where it's needed?

[Scopulus Argentarius]

Originally Posted by tw

Glaring fact. Louis Armstrong International airport that is right at the disaster location is all but empty. A nation chock full of C5A, C17, C-130, and C-141 transport aircraft as well as others such as 747s and DC-10s sent how much aid into the city by air? When asked why military planes were not providing such assistance, well, the federal government never asked. George Jr never asked. Where is Fox News on this story? Its called lying by telling half truths.

The initial response from the air was underwhelming.

As of Tuesday, MSY (The Louis Armstrong Airport) airport has been used as a staging area. MSY , located smack dab in the middle of the disaster area but outside of New Orleans ( in Kenner, La, 10 miles west of New Orleans) was initially reported to be underwater. I am not sure if the reports were true but I'm certain it delayed its initial usage as decisions were made using these initial reports.

That said, the *initial* response from the air was underwhelming. Presently, I'm seeing medical evacuation traffic overhead fast and furious. (It has actually slowed down as of yesterday after noon) I've yet to observe massive logisitical support aircraft. Those may arrive/(may have arrived) from another direction. (I am in Southeast Baton Rouge and directly in the flight path for a good bit of air traffic)


The statement "FEMA leadership and control" is oxymoronic. It needed to be pushed aside. Luckily, we still have some local leaders with the balls to do so. Sheriff Harry Lee, Sheriff of Jefferson Parish (west of New Orleans) basically declared his Parish has seceded from the United State and that he was in charge. He sent his own crew in for rescue and civil order operations. JPSO is one of the most competent, efficient, and well trained police organizations in the country. (you don't f*** with them...They are the reason New Orleans crime stays in the city and does not plague JP) (This statement was an anecdote from someone who left the area, I can't claim its accuracy - but I do know his crews are WORKING the area)


FEMA cost hundreds of people their lives, spread and intensified misery, and emasculated those in power who could have done something about the situation.


All is moot though, people should have been evacuated; it could have been done. People of common sense and the means (and not in special circumstances) did just that. There was plenty warning for an ounce of prevention.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...761346,00.html

(edited to paste in the link)http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...761346,00.html

[Brett's Honey]

So does anybody know how the airboats came to be arriving in MO? Were they called, or did they just volunteer and show up? Just curious....

[Brett's Honey]

My husband had an airboat a few years ago and the Corp of Engineers came around and asked if he could be listed as someone to contact should an airboat ever be needed in the area. (The can operate in very shallow water) So I just wondered....

[tw]

Originally Posted by wolf

Is the airport actually viable? Are the runways intact and inspected? And is the transportation infrastructure intact to be able to get stuff FROM the airport, ...

I had already been looking at that on satellite pictures. The airport in Kenner and roads southeast to the Mississippi side of New Orleans were unflooded ground. For example, this map from the NY Times entitled The Impact of Katrina provides details. A free registration may be required to view the satellite map. Click on "Levee System" to see land and roads that were above water into New Orleans.

But don't worry. George Jr said he is going to fix it. Just keep waiting for food and water. It's coming.....

Again, learn from history. The George Jr response before, during, and after 11 September was woefully underwhelming. Even George Jr administration officials could not decide to ground all airliners. That was initiated by Boston Center, NYC, and then by someone who did not have the authority and was on his first week on the job in Herndon Center - all while the Transportation Secretary, FAA Director and Cheney all made no decisions (that the 11 September Commission could confirm). Top George Jr administration officials even lied to the 11 September Commission about their actions. The 11 September report says they lied. Cheney never even authorized US military aircraft to shoot down attacking airliners - even though he said he did. George Jr, well, he read a children's book in FL.

The Tsunami response was to have the US military waiting for most of the week before George Jr finally authorized a rescue mission. Literally, the entire world had to embarrass the US before George Jr ever responded to a Tsunami disaster. Another action well recorded in history.

George Jr's response in New Orleans is only consistent with 11 September and the Tsunami. A Hurricane hit Monday. He lied about 400 trucks enroute. Food, water, and National Guard did not arrive until Friday. Even Nightline on Thursday had to publicly embarrass the Director of FEMA before food, water, and National Guard finally were deployed on ..... Friday.

My criticisms of George Jr have long been based only on facts; on basic principles of management. Based upon his history, the pathetic response to New Orleans has been also how the George Jr administration responded to 11 September and to the Indian Ocean Tsunami. But again, show me. Show me where any of this is in error. History teaches us, again, that MBAs are horrible leaders. One would have to be living in a Communist Stalinist country to forgive George Jr for what he has now done ... done for the third time.

Oh... but he finally ordered the USS Comfort out of Baltimore harbor. No problem. It will arrive 12 days after the hurricane. Of course every victim could have been flown by C5A and C17 to hospitals elsewhere that were better equipped. George Jr forgot to mention that part when he bragged that the USS Comfort was enroute. Classic MBA spin.

I hate to say I've telling you so. But again, I don't waste time with pictures of crying people or other silly emotions. I go after a devil in the details. Go back to my first posts. They still hold water ... including the part about how local officials were in denial of a Category 5 storm. That weekend, the casinos and conventions went on as normal when everyone should have been leaving town hastily.

An interview with a casino worker said he did not know the storm was coming. He had worked all week in a casino. Even casino management was in denial. Basic concepts of quality - attitude and knowledge. Top management in casinos and in government did exactly as William Edward Deming defines as bad management. Same errors that also murdered seven Challenger and seven Columbia astronauts. Same management that somehow could not find C5A and C17s to rescue dying Americans. You tell me who is the enemy of America. Non-Americans are invited to comment about why American leadership has also soured American foreign relations. It's all the same thing.

The sky over New Orleans should have been packed with transport aircraft like it was Chicago or Dallas / Ft Worth. Residents should have been able to look up at any second to see 6 planes in landing patterns. But that means George Jr has to order assistance. Even Air Force One was not packed to the wings with food and water. But that 747 was loaded with press photographers - and promises that aid was coming.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Brett's Honey

So does anybody know how the airboats came to be arriving in MO? Were they called, or did they just volunteer and show up? Just curious....

I believe they were rounded up by LA Fish and Game.

[sproglet]

Originally Posted by tw

Non-Americans are invited to comment about why American leadership has also soured American foreign relations. It's all the same thing.

I think many countries (the UK included) were stunned to learn Dubya had been elected into a second term of office, even more so that his incompetent cronies seem to fuck-up with impunity, safe in the knowledge their jobs are protected.

If there's been one good thing to come out of this recent disaster, then it's the possibility of the population being shaken from their ennui and catching a glimpse of the bigger picture.

Historically, this has been the stuff of revolutions & civil war.

[bargalunan]

.
Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush

Originally Posted by marichiko

You wussy Europeans can take care of your infra-structure. We are above such things. (or under them, as the case might be)

Too many French politicians and economical leaders take US economy as their model, and pray capitalism god.
The worst of them, Nicolas Sarkozy could be our next president. He's a neocon.
A guy I know who votes our Extreme Right Leader, Le Pen, even thinks Sarkozy is crazy and dangerous !
The problem is that he's everywhere in front of the cameras.
He's really fascinating, he always has good answers and a lot of energy despite he's lying and does the contrary.
He can sell a radio to deaf people.
He takes the first opportunity to expulse poors, immigrates like this week.
I've heard that the next possible German chancellor, Angela Merkel, shares the same ideas.

Kinds of politicians who want to reduce money for social help, public service and decrease direct taxes when they stronger increase indirect ones.

Crazy times.

[OnyxCougar]

I was of the opinion, on day 3 (Wednesday) that martial law should have been declared to quell the looting and such.

Now I am of a different mind, for a few reasons.

1) With no food or water getting into the area (strange that people with guns can get in, but not backpacks with MRE's...) there is no other recourse but to (a) walk out or (b) break into buildings and get supplies from local sources until evacuation.

If the response had been what everyone was expecting it would be but turned out NOT to have been, then yes, looting would have been simply unconscionable. However, with the current state of things, NOT fending for yourself, by whatever means necessary, is the unconscionable part. Please understand, I'm not talking about "fending for yourself" as in raping women and children (rumoured to be happening) but I think at this point, looting to keep yourself and your family alive is the best thing you could do, short of walking out to safety.

I also have a few questions:

1) If troops (cops, rescuers, whatever) with guns can get in to "control the crowd", why can't the crowd get out to food/shelter/water/supplies?

2) Why aren't people simply leaving the Superdome? Seems to me MORE people are being rescued offsite, by the coast guard or whoever, than are being rescued from the superdome and convention center. I'd be a walking/swimming/crawling fool before I stand/sit/whine that no one is coming to rescue me.

3) If people are being prevented from leaving, WHY are they being prevented from simply walking to somewhere safe, with supplies?

The government has failed these people but still they wait around and do nothing. You know, I might die trying to get out of New Orleans, but it's better than starving to death, waiting for an evacuation that never came.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by tw

An interview with a casino worker said he did not know the storm was coming. He had worked all week in a casino. Even casino management was in denial.

I don't see how you get that ... I worked in a nuthouse all week, well outside of the storm zone, didn't watch the news ... but I still knew a big goddamned storm was going to hit New Orleans or thereabouts.

Anybody that clueless needs to be out of the gene pool.

Originally Posted by wolf

Anybody that clueless needs to be out of the gene pool.

Well, for once you and I are in complete agreement. I NEVER watch the news, but I still knew all about the hurricane in advance way up here in Colorado. What? Was that casino worker deaf and blind? You mean to tell me that not a single patron of the establishment he worked in happened to mention ever so casually as he lugged his winnings or empty bank account (more likely) out the door, "gotta go now, there's a hurricane coming?" Not a single co-worker ever mentioned in passing that they were going to go home and pack up their car just in case? The dude never so much as passed a newspaper stand on his way to or from work with the glaring headline, "GET OUT NOW!" Give me a break!

Onyx, to answer your question about why people just didn't start walking out. A number of them did, but others were elderly or Mom's with infants and tiny children and many were sick or handicapped. Pretty difficult for such folks to go out on the lawless streets of the city and just start walking in all that heat with nowhere to go and no money once they got there.

I agree that if I had children to feed, I'd have gotten them food any way I could, but doing so would have meant joining a group of young punks with guns who reportedly were not above rape as well as pillage, and the grocery shelves had probably already been cleared out well in advance, anyhow.