San Diego fires - Page 2

Cloud · 10-24-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

. . . your bagels are very secure when you put lox on them, you know.

yuk, yuk, yuk!

Ah, the breakfast buffet at the Paris! c'est magnifique!

ZenGum · 10-24-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

And bagels with lox -- your bagels are very secure when you put lox on them, you know. And the wife, who does know, tells me the blintzes are some of the best anywhere.

lox??
Blintzes??
Weren't they Santa's substitute reindeer?
You're eating reindeer. You sod. :p

I never got the appeal of Vegas, or gambling generally.

Spexxvet · 10-24-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

...I never got the appeal of Vegas, or gambling generally.

I bet you never will.

ZenGum · 10-24-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I bet you never will.

You're on. Twenty Bucks.

HA! You lose! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

tw · 10-24-2007, 05:01 PM

From the LA Times of 24 Oct 2007:

Quote:

One arson suspect arrested, another shot and killed by police
Amid worries of new blazes adding to the firestorm already afflicting the region, a man who set a brush fire in Hesperia was arrested today on suspicion of arson, and police reported shooting and killing another arson suspect after chasing him out of scrub behind Cal State San Bernardino. ...

At least one of the huge wildfires, the Rosa fire in Temecula, was described as the work of an arsonist, investigators have said.

The confrontation that ended in the shooting death started around 6 p.m. Tuesday when San Bernardino university police spotted a man in a rural area of flood channels and scrub near the campus. University police tried to detain the man, but he got into his car and fled, authorities said. ...

The man, ... drove north on Waterman Avenue and up a dirt fire road up into the foothills. When officers tried to take him into custody, the man began to ram officers' vehicles, Patterson said. Officers shot and killed him.

"Both agencies' officers fired," said University Police Chief Jimmie Brown, who added that they didn't know who fired the fatal shot. "But right now, we don't know too much more." ...

About three hours later in Hesperia, a man was seen by a female motorist squatting along the side of Highway 173 just south of Arrowhead Lake Road. Sheriff's officials say John Alfred Rund, 48, of Hesperia had just started a fire along the flat, isolated scrubby road.

... witnesses said took off on a Honda motorcycle, wearing a red-and-white striped helmet.

Four residents of the area grabbed shovels and put out the brush fire with dirt, ...

A CHP helicopter, using infrared equipment, caught sight of Rund on his motorcycle, Miller said. Along with CHP officers, sheriff's deputies found and arrested Rund at a home along Highway 173 near Highway 138, she said.

steambender · 10-24-2007, 06:49 PM

Has anyone else seen that add for the Restless Leg Syndrome Drug? And the side-effects/contraindications include "...increases in gambling or other compulsive behavior?"

A Drug that intensifies compulsion? Who the hell is going to tell their doctor that they're an arsonist, or klepto, or pedophile?

right know that makes me wonder, about the arsonist part. I also swear to god that I would chase down, drag out of their car and pummel anyone stupid enough to toss a lit cigarette butt out of their car window...

still smoking in San Diego

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-24-2007, 10:19 PM

Progress towards containment is being made on most if not all fires up at the more northerly end of things, where most of the evacuations... weren't. The greatest number of evacuations is still down in San Diego County.

1800 houses destroyed overall, and five deaths.

In Oxnard, we did have one little smudge-fire located right by a highway on-ramp -- Rose Avenue onto the 101 -- that was immediately squashed by the local FD. That probably was some dildoid flicking a butt out the car window. They apparently didn't have the advantage of being brought up by a forest ranger...

steambender · 10-25-2007, 12:52 AM

A month ago my brother visited from back east. We drove the 45 minutes out through Ramona and witch creek to Julian for lunch and apple pie, the town specialty. Our trip was cut short by a wildfire on the backside of town, and we were passed by a steady stream of CalFire trucks heading up to town as we went back downhill home to Scripps Ranch. I took the opportunity to show him how absolutely arid the vegetation was and the extreme fire risk. He got to walk on a beach and see a wildfire in the same day.

Anyone with any sensitivity to their local surroundings would see the hazard. They think, or so they've said, that the wind downed power lines for the witch fire, and that an exploding transformer started at least one of the secondary fires. Too many others to be spontaneous.

Four years ago I rode my bike through the area 1-2 miles away where 350 houses were burned. They wouldn't let people in for quite a while, there was some looting, but I got in earlier on a bike than they would have let a car in. It looked like the California version of Germany and London after the firebombings, even down to being mostly black and gray. Blue sky and sunny, being southern California.

Cloud · 10-25-2007, 10:14 AM

I wonder at the contrast between this disaster, and the Katrina hurricane. Similar stadiums as refuges; one a horror story of backing up toilets, no facilities, etc., the other described as a "county fair" with an overabundance of volunteers, and massages provided to evacuees.

Is it just a smaller disaster? Was New Orleans just a poorer place with fewer facilities? Has FEMA really learned its lessons?

As an aside, I'm always flabbergasted by the number of people who don't have disaster plans or supplies on hand. In California, surely, where people deal with earthquakes all the time, shouldn't most of these people have emergency supplies on hand? I guess it's just one of those things that people know they should do, but somehow never get around to it. Like me!

ZenGum · 10-25-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

As an aside, I'm always flabbergasted by the number of people who don't have disaster plans or supplies on hand. In California, surely, where people deal with earthquakes all the time, shouldn't most of these people have emergency supplies on hand? I guess it's just one of those things that people know they should do, but somehow never get around to it. Like me!

Japan is the most earthquake prone country in on Earth (according to some) and gets regular tsunamis, typhoons, flood, volcanoes, blizzards (in the north and mountains) ... about the only thing it doesn't get are huge fires and droughts, although droughts are starting to happen.
The government urges everyone to have 3 days worth of water, food and other supplies per person in disaster packs ready to go ... yet barely 15 or 20 % of the people I have spoken to have them. Usually it is older people too. I guess they've seen it before. It's hard to convince people by telling them.
And even those with packs often seem to forget toilet paper. Du-u-uh!

I too have noted the difference between this and Katrina, and I'm wondering why. Got no answer though.

steambender · 10-25-2007, 11:29 AM

For the most part, the areas evacuated were not inner city, dense urban populations. Plus, San diego has a highly developed sense of volunteerism and service - 100 thousand active duty personnel, 300 thousand retired military. People are offering to pick up and do laundry for the stadium refugees!

We went through this 4 years ago, and everybody learned lessons from it. there are still people who had no clue, but most people effected in Ranch Bernardo (worst hit) were white collar, and the houses than burned average probably $750k. Their coping skills are reasonable. And the denser parts of the city and hotels were open to absorb the evacuees. remember that at peak only about 15,000 peple went to qualcomm. All the others (the balance of the 500,000+ potential evacuees) got absorbed by the community. the number of homes lost will be less than 5000, so the destruction is much less that Katerina, and the infrastucture is still in place.

San diego has had some high profile city management issues, financial mismanagement, and rubber stamping developers plans, that type of thing. But therre is still a sense of amatuerism to the city politics compared to say, Chicago. almost innocence, and it comes out in the community spirit in a big way at times like this.

"High Fire Danger" is a season here and the level of awareness is very high. It's always a question of when and where, not if.

There's also the difference between having emergency supplies in your house, and what you can pack in your car and take with you on less than an hours notice. Ranch Bernardo got evacuated at 4:00 AM on short notice, the fires moved the 20 miles overnight.

kids, pets, important papers, computers, overnight clothes...gee we're out of room, can't take our years' survivalist supplies.

glatt · 10-25-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I too have noted the difference between this and Katrina, and I'm wondering why. Got no answer though.

I think the main difference is that a hurricane wipes out all the power in the region and causes widespread destruction everywhere in the area. These fires are widespread, but they don't cause the same overwhelming destruction everywhere. Some places burn, some don't. The systems (electricity, plumbing, etc.) still work, for the most part, even though so many individual buildings were lost.

Also, in Katrina, everybody had to evacuate. In San Diego, only some people did. Those who didn't are able to help the victims.

Cloud · 10-25-2007, 12:14 PM

Good points Steambender.

Tho the emergency preparedness info I've come across says to have BOTH 1) bulk supplies of food, water, etc.; and a backpack or other "quick-grab" thing with essentials in it.

I keep meaning to do this . . . fortunately, very few natural disasters in my area. Still, could be a plague or something . . .

Cicero · 10-25-2007, 01:40 PM

Hmmm. Good Question. Glatt's right about the power.

I think the difference is, being able to drive to safety, and resources. And if you don't like that....you can drive somewhere else.

Here are some marked differences:

One massive group is trapped inside of a burning hot, and putrid watery hell with no means to get out for weeks on end.

The other:

Tiny small groups are free to leave a hot burning hell with their house in the rearview of their hummer to go eat and rest at Grandma's for a few days clutching their insurance policys.

I can give you a more detailed list but I'm already tired of my own opinion on this one.

steambender · 10-25-2007, 01:52 PM

the topic of grab and go energency supplies gets talked about a lot.

Do a quick experiment-

1. back a car out of garage so you have some clear floor space.

2. start a pile of everything you and the people (& pets)you are responsible for would need for 24 hours of survival

at least one gallon of water per person
shelter in which to sleep
clothing for 95+ days and 50 degree nights
blankets or sleeping bags
sun shade for the day
personal hygiene supplies (we were peeing behind the grocery store)
food
a source of power for cell phones and radios
anything you need to prepare, cook & consume the food
transportation for all of the above
fuel for the transportation - we watched many people pull up to opur local gas station after it closed - they were SOL.
trashbags

non essentials to survival:
activites for the kids and any restless adults, you do nothing but wait and worry once you have a place to be.
important identity and property ownership papers.
computers
irreplaceable photos, etc.

Now how big is that pile, how long did it take you to collect it, does it fit into your transportation?

multiply it by more than one day.

Have you ever practiced using it? (gone camping) or does your version of camping involve curling irons and room service?

so, how easy is it to not look prepared, and who among us is ready RIGHT NOW?

10-24-2007, 06:49 PM	#21
steambender It just needs a minor tweak...here... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kitty corner from where I grew up Posts: 48	complusion... Has anyone else seen that add for the Restless Leg Syndrome Drug? And the side-effects/contraindications include "...increases in gambling or other compulsive behavior?" A Drug that intensifies compulsion? Who the hell is going to tell their doctor that they're an arsonist, or klepto, or pedophile? right know that makes me wonder, about the arsonist part. I also swear to god that I would chase down, drag out of their car and pummel anyone stupid enough to toss a lit cigarette butt out of their car window... still smoking in San Diego

10-24-2007, 10:19 PM	#22
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Progress towards containment is being made on most if not all fires up at the more northerly end of things, where most of the evacuations... weren't. The greatest number of evacuations is still down in San Diego County. 1800 houses destroyed overall, and five deaths. In Oxnard, we did have one little smudge-fire located right by a highway on-ramp -- Rose Avenue onto the 101 -- that was immediately squashed by the local FD. That probably was some dildoid flicking a butt out the car window. They apparently didn't have the advantage of being brought up by a forest ranger... __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

10-25-2007, 10:14 AM	#24
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	I wonder at the contrast between this disaster, and the Katrina hurricane. Similar stadiums as refuges; one a horror story of backing up toilets, no facilities, etc., the other described as a "county fair" with an overabundance of volunteers, and massages provided to evacuees. Is it just a smaller disaster? Was New Orleans just a poorer place with fewer facilities? Has FEMA really learned its lessons? As an aside, I'm always flabbergasted by the number of people who don't have disaster plans or supplies on hand. In California, surely, where people deal with earthquakes all the time, shouldn't most of these people have emergency supplies on hand? I guess it's just one of those things that people know they should do, but somehow never get around to it. Like me! __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-25-2007, 12:14 PM	#28
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	Good points Steambender. Tho the emergency preparedness info I've come across says to have BOTH 1) bulk supplies of food, water, etc.; and a backpack or other "quick-grab" thing with essentials in it. I keep meaning to do this . . . fortunately, very few natural disasters in my area. Still, could be a plague or something . . . __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-25-2007, 01:40 PM	#29
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Hmmm. Good Question. Glatt's right about the power. I think the difference is, being able to drive to safety, and resources. And if you don't like that....you can drive somewhere else. Here are some marked differences: One massive group is trapped inside of a burning hot, and putrid watery hell with no means to get out for weeks on end. The other: Tiny small groups are free to leave a hot burning hell with their house in the rearview of their hummer to go eat and rest at Grandma's for a few days clutching their insurance policys. I can give you a more detailed list but I'm already tired of my own opinion on this one. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-25-2007, 12:52 AM	#23
steambender It just needs a minor tweak...here... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kitty corner from where I grew up Posts: 48	A month ago my brother visited from back east. We drove the 45 minutes out through Ramona and witch creek to Julian for lunch and apple pie, the town specialty. Our trip was cut short by a wildfire on the backside of town, and we were passed by a steady stream of CalFire trucks heading up to town as we went back downhill home to Scripps Ranch. I took the opportunity to show him how absolutely arid the vegetation was and the extreme fire risk. He got to walk on a beach and see a wildfire in the same day. Anyone with any sensitivity to their local surroundings would see the hazard. They think, or so they've said, that the wind downed power lines for the witch fire, and that an exploding transformer started at least one of the secondary fires. Too many others to be spontaneous. Four years ago I rode my bike through the area 1-2 miles away where 350 houses were burned. They wouldn't let people in for quite a while, there was some looting, but I got in earlier on a bike than they would have let a car in. It looked like the California version of Germany and London after the firebombings, even down to being mostly black and gray. Blue sky and sunny, being southern California.

10-25-2007, 11:29 AM	#26
steambender It just needs a minor tweak...here... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kitty corner from where I grew up Posts: 48	For the most part, the areas evacuated were not inner city, dense urban populations. Plus, San diego has a highly developed sense of volunteerism and service - 100 thousand active duty personnel, 300 thousand retired military. People are offering to pick up and do laundry for the stadium refugees! We went through this 4 years ago, and everybody learned lessons from it. there are still people who had no clue, but most people effected in Ranch Bernardo (worst hit) were white collar, and the houses than burned average probably $750k. Their coping skills are reasonable. And the denser parts of the city and hotels were open to absorb the evacuees. remember that at peak only about 15,000 peple went to qualcomm. All the others (the balance of the 500,000+ potential evacuees) got absorbed by the community. the number of homes lost will be less than 5000, so the destruction is much less that Katerina, and the infrastucture is still in place. San diego has had some high profile city management issues, financial mismanagement, and rubber stamping developers plans, that type of thing. But therre is still a sense of amatuerism to the city politics compared to say, Chicago. almost innocence, and it comes out in the community spirit in a big way at times like this. "High Fire Danger" is a season here and the level of awareness is very high. It's always a question of when and where, not if. There's also the difference between having emergency supplies in your house, and what you can pack in your car and take with you on less than an hours notice. Ranch Bernardo got evacuated at 4:00 AM on short notice, the fires moved the 20 miles overnight. kids, pets, important papers, computers, overnight clothes...gee we're out of room, can't take our years' survivalist supplies.

10-25-2007, 01:52 PM	#30
steambender It just needs a minor tweak...here... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kitty corner from where I grew up Posts: 48	Are you ready? the topic of grab and go energency supplies gets talked about a lot. Do a quick experiment- 1. back a car out of garage so you have some clear floor space. 2. start a pile of everything you and the people (& pets)you are responsible for would need for 24 hours of survival at least one gallon of water per person shelter in which to sleep clothing for 95+ days and 50 degree nights blankets or sleeping bags sun shade for the day personal hygiene supplies (we were peeing behind the grocery store) food a source of power for cell phones and radios anything you need to prepare, cook & consume the food transportation for all of the above fuel for the transportation - we watched many people pull up to opur local gas station after it closed - they were SOL. trashbags non essentials to survival: activites for the kids and any restless adults, you do nothing but wait and worry once you have a place to be. important identity and property ownership papers. computers irreplaceable photos, etc. Now how big is that pile, how long did it take you to collect it, does it fit into your transportation? multiply it by more than one day. Have you ever practiced using it? (gone camping) or does your version of camping involve curling irons and room service? so, how easy is it to not look prepared, and who among us is ready RIGHT NOW?

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