Faith... to what/whom?

[Undertoad]

[wolf]

Onyx Cougar Reminded us:
"Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength. That is the first and great commandment," (Mark 12:30) then you will naturally follow the rest.

Thing is, you see, I do ...

Just not the Fellow that inspired Mark to write.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar



You can't be a homosexual (just as an easy example) and love God. The arguement that God loves the sinner but not the sin is true. IMO, though, the homosexual (that engages in sexual activity) that says he's a Christian is a liar.

that's fucked up. who the fuck are you to say that you can;t love god if you're gay? talk about having an asshole button. please tell me you're being sarcastic and I just missed the joke. jesus christ. Why does our physical sexual appetite have ANYTHING to do with the ability to believe in and love the lord with all of your heart? Here again, is an example of an otherwise lucent and intelligent person saying something completely stupid and hypocritical about the GOD they worship. I'll buy that you have to believe without question that he's god, and even that jesus was your savior and all of that crap that i dont personally believe. I used to struggle with that, but bruce cleared it up for me pretty well. But this? get the fuck outa here. you cant love god because your attracted to the same sex? well who made you attracted to the same sex in the first place? You can;t fake that kind of thing. it is or it isnt. and while i throw the word "gay" around, and call people "homo" as a joking insult, when it comes down to it, i have as much respect for their choices as i do for mine. If they want to worship the christian god, and even thank Him for the pool boy he sent them with the beautiful gay ass, then God bless them. Dont you get it? your religion is between you and your god. the homosexual's religion is between him and his god. you can;t tell him he can;t love god 100% because you dont understand his sexual motivation. take that shit back.

[lumberjim]

oh wait. are you telling me that God is prejudiced? that Christianity is not an equal opportunity religion? Are black people allowed to be real christians? How about women? i'm just sure there's some grossly sexist line in the bible that says something stupid about a woman being the property of her husband. think for yourself. love your god. believe beyond all proof to the contrary. dont be stupid about it though.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar




Also, true Christians *are* concerned for the salvation of their fellow man. They have to be. It was said so many times in the bible to "go and bring them unto me..." and it's a function of the true christian's love for his fellow man... If you love all men (and women), then you don't want to see them miss out on eternal life. Therefore, if you love them, you'll try to lead them to God.

Buddhists believe something similiar. In fact, many Buddhist's take something called the "Bodisattva Vow" which I will paraphrase here (the original is rather long): "I vow to never attain perfect enlightenment until every single being also attains perfect enlightenment. I vow that I shall return to this life time and again to help all beings until at last they all attain enlightenment, all suffering at end." That means you're in this life thing for the duration and will never take the easy way out by floating off to heaven (Nirvana) as long as so much as a butterfly still lives on in this world of suffering. That's a pretty heavy duty commitment to make, and an extremely selfless one. Buddhist's believe in attraction, not promotion, so they don't go door to door asking people if they believe in the Dharma. They figure when a soul is ready for it, the heart will open up of its own accord. This seems to me like a far gentler and loving approach.

[Carbonated_Brains]

Well, let's see:

1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. 2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.

Deuteronomy 21:1

Alright, eunuchs and bastards are out,

"A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this."

Deuteronomy 22:5

Hope you're not wearing pants right now, Onyx.

"Women should remain silent in churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is a disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." -1

Corinthians 14:34-35

hmm..

"And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people."

Leviticus 20:18

Bet you didn't know that your menstrual cycle was called "your sickness", eh?

"And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father."

Genesis 19:31

Homosexuality is a sin, but if you and your sister want to boff your dying father while he's drunk and asleep, go right ahead.

I don't buy this crap where you can believe part of the bible and not other parts. The ENTIRE bible is composed of INTERPRETATIONS of events which transpired. Some are exaggerating, some are insane, some could be accurate. True path to God should be through yourself, not the accounts of a bunch of selectively-included gospels, which all have their own slant.

Believing that homosexuals are evil because Genesis told you so is like believing butternut Squash are made of gold because a hobo said he saw it once in 'nam.

[OnyxCougar]

Let me clarify, since your panties are in a bunch and you've done the usual "take it to the nth degree, nevermind what was meant..."

Let's say you and I are married. We are deeply in love.

We have a dog. I love the dog. I've had this dog since before I married you. I really love this dog.

You kill the dog because it has a color fur you don't like.

How can you say you love me when you killed my dog?

Either (1) You had no thought to how I would feel, so you don't love me, or (2) You thought about it but don't care. So you don't love me.



If you love God, if you truly love Him, not just say you do, then you WANT to do everything in your power to please Him, and NOT do those things which displease him.

He has told us in the Bible (more than once) that homosexuality is an ABOMINATION unto HIM. Don't get pissed off at me because God doesn't like it.

There are, as I said before, gay men that I know that have forsaken the want of their human, sinful flesh because they put GOD'S wants first. They love God more than they love sex.

oh wait. are you telling me that God is prejudiced?

Yup. He hates sin. Can't stand it. Will not let it be around him. That's why Jesus died on the cross. To wash sins away and bridge that gap between you and God.

that Christianity is not an equal opportunity religion?

Of course it is. I could quote about 100 verses about how all people are loved of God.

If you love God, you follow the rules. I don't understand how you make the jump to "not an Equal Oppurtunity religion". Everyone is welcome and everyone has to follow the SAME rules. You don't get a special set of rules because you're gay or because you're black. It's the same set of rules for everyone. That seems VERY Equal Opportunity to me.

I do think for myself, and faith is the belief without proof, and I don't think there is any stupidity involved.

Unless you count people being closeminded and not being responsible for their own actions. IMO, that's stupidity.

[elSicomoro]

I understand where you're coming from Onyx, but you do realize how contradictory the Bible is, right?

[richlevy]

Originally posted by lumberjim


are eggs vegetables?

Only if you're Jewish. In Judaism, eggs and fish are lumped in with grains and vegetables into the Pareve category, which means they are not milk or meat and can be eaten with either.

Jewish dietary laws prohibit mixing meat and milk.

Absolute vegetarians (Vegans) do not eat meat, eggs, fish, or dairy.

There is a term (octo-lavo?) for vegetarians who include eggs and milk.

[richlevy]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains
Believing that homosexuals are evil because Genesis told you so is like believing butternut Squash are made of gold because a hobo said he saw it once in 'nam.

LMAO!

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains


Believing that homosexuals are evil because Genesis told you so is like believing butternut Squash are made of gold because a hobo said he saw it once in 'nam.

I never said homosexuals are evil. GOD said the ACT is sin. There's a big difference. God loves the sinner, hates the sin. He loves homosexuals, but hates the fact that they commit the sin of practicing homosexuality. I don't understand why that is a difficult concept for some people.

The rest I'll think about and post a reply on after I've looked some stuff up.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by sycamore
I understand where you're coming from Onyx, but you do realize how contradictory the Bible is, right?

Yes, I realize it says one thing in the old testament and something else in the new, and I'm going to look up specific examples and get back to ya'll on that.

[Carbonated_Brains]

You missed my point. I'm saying that you only THINK God says homosexuality is a sin, because you read it in a bible which is composed of the accounts of other people!

[OnyxCougar]

I would like to point out, however....that at no time did God say it was ok to commit homosexual practices, and also, at no time, did he say that he didn't love everyone. Also, there was always some sacrifice that had to be made to atone for sin. Those things never changed.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains
You missed my point. I'm saying that you only THINK God says homosexuality is a sin, because you read it in a bible which is composed of the accounts of other people!

Well, to be a Christian, you have to believe that the Bible is the Word of God. You either believe that or you don't. If you don't, you have no basis upon which to be Christian. If one part is wrong, the rest is open to question.

So while YOU believe that the Bible is nothing but a bunch of stories, Christians believe it's the word of god, therefore, since the Word of God say homosexuality is a sin, Christians will believe homosexuality is a sin.

You, as an individual, believe what you want. That's what free will is all about.