10/24/2005: Dog becomes shark bait - Page 2

BigV · 10-24-2005, 01:20 PM

I'm both skeptical and unalarmed. Snopes regards the status as "mixed". The article contains a different but highly similar photo.

I believe cruelty to animals is wrong. I think that working myself into a high froth over this picture would be a waste of energy as there are countless opportunities closer to home that I could have a more direct influence on. [<strike>devil's</strike> shark's advocate] What about the sharks caught this way or any other way that are hauled onboard, have their fins removed "harvested" and their living bleeding bodies dumped overboard to suffer and die? Where's the love there?

Promenea · 10-24-2005, 02:07 PM

[quote=BigV]What about the sharks caught this way or any other way that are hauled onboard, have their fins removed "harvested" and their living bleeding bodies dumped overboard to suffer and die? [quote]

Why would they throw perfectly good bait back in the water without a hook attached?

I'm not buying that they hook the dog alive. A dog has teeth and is likely to bite the shit out of you in a frenzy while putting in that hook. I can see them shooting feral dogs and using them as bait but I'm not buying the rest of it.

Leus · 10-24-2005, 02:23 PM

This is just too "good" to be true: a dog used as a giant fishbait, hook included? I'd say fake, even (or even more) if it's from NatGeo.

mrnoodle · 10-24-2005, 04:34 PM

It looks fake-ish, but (sorry for the graphic nature of the following) it would actually be a pretty effective way to rig a live animal as bait. Sharks hit to disable first, then come back around to feed. The dog would be in a considerable amount of pain, and its thrashing would attract sharks. If the hooks are set in cartilage, they wouldn't tear free, and the lack of any major blood vessels (other than in the tongue) would ensure a relatively long period of consciousness in the animal, at least until it drowned or was attacked.

Sick, but entirely plausible. I imagine they have a number of dogs pre-hooked, then they chum the water until sharks appear. When they do, splash goes a dog.

All that said, I have a hard time condemning the fisherpeople on the "cute and fuzzy" aspect alone. Live bait is live bait, and if these people don't share our sensibilities about dogs, you can't hold them to the same standard.

I use live bait all the time -- minnows don't get an easier time of it, just because they lack puppy-ness. Neither do pigs used to bait lions.

I'd break the legs of anyone I caught abusing a dog, but we can't just throw a blanked condemnation over actions which are reprehensible to our genteel upbringing.

Trilby · 10-24-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

All that said, I have a hard time condemning the fisherpeople on the "cute and fuzzy" aspect alone. Live bait is live bait, and if these people don't share our sensibilities about dogs, you can't hold them to the same standard.

I use live bait all the time -- minnows don't get an easier time of it, just because they lack puppy-ness. Neither do pigs used to bait lions.

I'd break the legs of anyone I caught abusing a dog, but we can't just throw a blanked condemnation over actions which are reprehensible to our genteel upbringing.

Now I really, really dislike you, noodle. Bag on Halloween and now this! I CAN CONDEM PEOPLE WHO USE CATS AND DOGS AS SHARK BAIT! I CAN! I WILL!

you're a bad, bad, naughty boy and some day you'll understand why this isn't a matter of 'genteel' upbringing. It's totally brutal and I'm hoping snopes says it's false.

noodle-do your attitudes about Halloween and the dog-as-bait thing have to do with your being Christian? I'll bet Jesus wouldn't use dogs as bait and I'll bet he would trick or treat. Don't know what kind of costume he'd like, though... how 'bout

??

dar512 · 10-24-2005, 04:58 PM

I don't buy the minnow / dog comparison. The dog would be much more aware of his condition / situation.

capnhowdy · 10-24-2005, 05:07 PM

I personally am too apalled to comment. IMO no matter where you are from or who you are YOU ARE ONE SICK SUMBITCH TO DO THIS.
I wish someone would lock one of these people up in a cell with this Marine for about a half hour.
It is very difficult to draw a line for humanitarianism on these issues. Who said live bait is live bait? Sheesh......
Let's not forget.... we are animals too. More domesticated than dogs of course, but dogs are more domesticated than fish.

I project this IoTD will raise some controversy. After I recover from the initial shock I may dare to participate. Right now I'm just going to feel sorry for the dog and the twisted pieces of garbage that are committing these lewd acts. May God have mercy on their souls. I damn sure wouldn't.

mrnoodle · 10-24-2005, 05:35 PM

I feel the same way, get off my nuts. I'm just saying.

What about cannibals? What about cultures that have rites of passage that we would consider torture? Why do we assume fish don't feel? The shark is a predator, so his death isn't tragic? Why isn't it wrong for people to eat dog? If it IS wrong to eat dog, why isn't it wrong to eat cows?

It's obviously cruel to treat a dog like that. But what if they killed it humanely and then used it for bait? What if it was an ugly animal instead -- how would you feel then? I'm just asking honest questions of myself and of you, come play.

Trilby · 10-24-2005, 06:19 PM

Ok. I admit I have an emotional attachment to dogs/cats and furry critters all around. I don't like the idea of 'live bait' in any circumstance, though honestly I am not really bothered by live minnows being used as bait. I have no love of sharks but I don't want to see them tortured or abused or misused in any way. A living thing is a living thing and it should be honored as such and not used in some horrific, inhumane way. Human=humane? Not in my experience, but we should at least TRY. We should condem things that are blatantly tortuous, no?

footfootfoot · 10-24-2005, 06:30 PM

Festival of righteous anthropocentrism.

The closer you are to me the more valuable your life is.

When you show the same compassion for the weeds in your lawn that you do for the alleged dog in the above picture then I'll listen to what you have to say. Otherwise, killing is killing.

Anything else is just indefensible anthropocentric crap.

But then, that's just my opinion.

linknoid · 10-24-2005, 06:46 PM

Shark bait, oooh ha ha!

Sorry, that's just my favorite line from "Finding Nemo".

(Not to make too light of the situation, whoever did that is really mentally deranged if it's real.)

warch · 10-24-2005, 07:10 PM

hmm. Well when the barking wont stop at 4 AM....you might as well get up and go fishin'. No need to cast. Just throw a stick and he'll swim out.

noooo..I kid....good doggie...fluffy puppy.

Happy Monkey · 10-24-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

When you show the same compassion for the weeds in your lawn that you do for the alleged dog in the above picture then I'll listen to what you have to say.

Do you believe plants can feel pain, or that dogs can't?

dar512 · 10-24-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

I feel the same way, get off my nuts. I'm just saying.

If you feel the same way, then I suspect you already know the answers. So why ask the questions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

What about cannibals? What about cultures that have rites of passage that we would consider torture?

You lost me. Try again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Why do we assume fish don't feel? The shark is a predator, so his death isn't tragic?

Smaller braincase. Not really self-aware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Why isn't it wrong for people to eat dog? If it IS wrong to eat dog, why isn't it wrong to eat cows?

Don't know about other folks, but I think dogs make better companions than cows. I suspect dogs don't taste as good as cows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

But what if they killed it humanely and then used it for bait?

Ok. This one actually made me think. Assuming that the dogs came from shelters, could not be adopted, and had to be disposed of anyway, then maybe.

footfootfoot · 10-24-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Do you believe plants can feel pain, or that dogs can't?

If you are asking if I believe plants have a nervous system similar to mammals, then no; I didn't miss that much of biology class.

If you are attempting to set up a hierarchy of worthiness based upon how much a person empathizes with something then that is what I am referring to in my earlier post.

I find it pretty awful to use a live animal as bait on many many levels. But if you want to take the opinion for a moment that there is a hierarchy to creatures, and humans are somewhere in the top 5%, then it is probably more destructive to the people who are using animals as bait than it is to the animals being used as bait. After all, isn't it part of the argument that we humans have consciousness? And wouldn't it be taking a step down for a human to behave in such an uncompassionate way?

If compassion is a worthy trait of humans then isn't it somewhat false to say: "well, I have compassion for this creature because it is a lot like me, but bugs, well, bugs are kind of a nuisance so I don't really care about bugs. And while we're at it, fish don't really think, I mean scientists have proven that, so it is okay to just kill them. And vegetables can't run away, so they must have been meant to be eaten." etc.

So is it a conditional compassion and if so, based upon whose value set? At one end you've got the Jains who filter their water so they won't harm a single microbe (or so it's been alleged; I don't know any Jains) Most cellarites will agree that is pretty wacky. At the other end you've got any number of genocidal maniacs.

I don't have a special fondness for dogs or shark hunters, I'm just wary of the type of thinking that projects personal values onto creatures at large. The "live dogs make good shark bait" coin has two sides.

10-24-2005, 01:20 PM	#16
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I'm both skeptical and unalarmed. Snopes regards the status as "mixed". The article contains a different but highly similar photo. I believe cruelty to animals is wrong. I think that working myself into a high froth over this picture would be a waste of energy as there are countless opportunities closer to home that I could have a more direct influence on. [<strike>devil's</strike> shark's advocate] What about the sharks caught this way or any other way that are hauled onboard, have their fins removed "harvested" and their living bleeding bodies dumped overboard to suffer and die? Where's the love there? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

10-24-2005, 04:34 PM	#19
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	It looks fake-ish, but (sorry for the graphic nature of the following) it would actually be a pretty effective way to rig a live animal as bait. Sharks hit to disable first, then come back around to feed. The dog would be in a considerable amount of pain, and its thrashing would attract sharks. If the hooks are set in cartilage, they wouldn't tear free, and the lack of any major blood vessels (other than in the tongue) would ensure a relatively long period of consciousness in the animal, at least until it drowned or was attacked. Sick, but entirely plausible. I imagine they have a number of dogs pre-hooked, then they chum the water until sharks appear. When they do, splash goes a dog. All that said, I have a hard time condemning the fisherpeople on the "cute and fuzzy" aspect alone. Live bait is live bait, and if these people don't share our sensibilities about dogs, you can't hold them to the same standard. I use live bait all the time -- minnows don't get an easier time of it, just because they lack puppy-ness. Neither do pigs used to bait lions. I'd break the legs of anyone I caught abusing a dog, but we can't just throw a blanked condemnation over actions which are reprehensible to our genteel upbringing. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

10-24-2005, 04:58 PM	#21
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	I don't buy the minnow / dog comparison. The dog would be much more aware of his condition / situation. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

10-24-2005, 05:07 PM	#22
capnhowdy Blatantly Homosapien Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 6,200	I personally am too apalled to comment. IMO no matter where you are from or who you are YOU ARE ONE SICK SUMBITCH TO DO THIS. I wish someone would lock one of these people up in a cell with this Marine for about a half hour. It is very difficult to draw a line for humanitarianism on these issues. Who said live bait is live bait? Sheesh...... Let's not forget.... we are animals too. More domesticated than dogs of course, but dogs are more domesticated than fish. I project this IoTD will raise some controversy. After I recover from the initial shock I may dare to participate. Right now I'm just going to feel sorry for the dog and the twisted pieces of garbage that are committing these lewd acts. May God have mercy on their souls. I damn sure wouldn't. __________________ Please type slowly. I can't read very fast............... and no holy water, please.

10-24-2005, 05:35 PM	#23
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	I feel the same way, get off my nuts. I'm just saying. What about cannibals? What about cultures that have rites of passage that we would consider torture? Why do we assume fish don't feel? The shark is a predator, so his death isn't tragic? Why isn't it wrong for people to eat dog? If it IS wrong to eat dog, why isn't it wrong to eat cows? It's obviously cruel to treat a dog like that. But what if they killed it humanely and then used it for bait? What if it was an ugly animal instead -- how would you feel then? I'm just asking honest questions of myself and of you, come play. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh Last edited by mrnoodle; 10-24-2005 at 05:38 PM.

10-24-2005, 02:07 PM	#17
Promenea Resident President Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 86	[quote=BigV]What about the sharks caught this way or any other way that are hauled onboard, have their fins removed "harvested" and their living bleeding bodies dumped overboard to suffer and die? [quote] Why would they throw perfectly good bait back in the water without a hook attached? I'm not buying that they hook the dog alive. A dog has teeth and is likely to bite the shit out of you in a frenzy while putting in that hook. I can see them shooting feral dogs and using them as bait but I'm not buying the rest of it.

10-24-2005, 02:23 PM	#18
Leus Abecedarian Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chile Posts: 179	This is just too "good" to be true: a dog used as a giant fishbait, hook included? I'd say fake, even (or even more) if it's from NatGeo.

10-24-2005, 06:19 PM	#24
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Ok. I admit I have an emotional attachment to dogs/cats and furry critters all around. I don't like the idea of 'live bait' in any circumstance, though honestly I am not really bothered by live minnows being used as bait. I have no love of sharks but I don't want to see them tortured or abused or misused in any way. A living thing is a living thing and it should be honored as such and not used in some horrific, inhumane way. Human=humane? Not in my experience, but we should at least TRY. We should condem things that are blatantly tortuous, no? __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

10-24-2005, 06:30 PM	#25
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	Festival of righteous anthropocentrism. The closer you are to me the more valuable your life is. When you show the same compassion for the weeds in your lawn that you do for the alleged dog in the above picture then I'll listen to what you have to say. Otherwise, killing is killing. Anything else is just indefensible anthropocentric crap. But then, that's just my opinion. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

10-24-2005, 06:46 PM	#26
linknoid Superior Inhabitant Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 74	Shark bait, oooh ha ha! Sorry, that's just my favorite line from "Finding Nemo". (Not to make too light of the situation, whoever did that is really mentally deranged if it's real.)

10-24-2005, 07:10 PM	#27
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	hmm. Well when the barking wont stop at 4 AM....you might as well get up and go fishin'. No need to cast. Just throw a stick and he'll swim out. noooo..I kid....good doggie...fluffy puppy.

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