A Belief Question - Page 5

Flint · 11-10-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

But, that those cultural understandings vary does not mean that they go away and exert no influence on the hearer's comprehension. Language works partly through those shared understandings and references.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I wouldn't use a word outside of it's cultural associations without explaining why, and on what basis.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Incidentally, the collective assumptions about what "worship" means, from a dictionary definition, do not specify a communicative act.

Regarding the "shared understandings and references" that "exert...influence on the hearer's comprehension."

Happy Monkey · 11-10-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

*I* don't call it worship, because I have this inexorable sense of the word in association with kowtowing to something greater than myself, outside of myself, and that's not my belief system.

Well, there you go then.

Quote:

I *am* reaching outside of myself, because although I am a part of the Universe, I still wish to draw from, be in tune with, tap into...the All. I'm part of the Universe, but I'm a damn small part, and there's a lot more energy and inherent "mojo", if you will, to be accessed from the All.

Would you say that the All is insensate, along the lines of electricity or gravity, and you're essentially doing engineering with metaphysics? Or does it also include the sum of all consciousness in the Universe?

Elspode · 11-10-2006, 10:23 AM

I'd have to go with the sum of all consciousness. The standard reference that I recommend on the subject of metaphysics/physics is "The Holographic Universe", by Michael Talbot. It makes a lot of sense to me, even though there are holes.

DanaC · 11-10-2006, 12:53 PM

Flint, I never suggested that worship was connected in any way with communication. My point was about more than your use of the word 'worship'. It's also about your use of the word 'God'. yes, God may mean gravity and the laws of physics and evolution; God might be a helium gas. But common understanding suggests that the word God, is primarily used to denote a powerful and conscious force, often with the aspect of creator.

Using the word 'atheist', is a shortcut to say I do not believe in God or any Gods. That doesn't mean I don't believe in evolution or the laws of physics, but conversation would become very cumbersome if I had to explain the terms of reference for every word I used that was in common usage.

Flint · 11-10-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Flint, I never suggested that worship was connected in any way with communication.

My apologies. When you quoted my posts regarding the "communication" issue, I responded as if the actual subject the quote was being addressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

...conversation would become very cumbersome if I had to explain the terms of reference for every word I used that was in common usage.

I don't wish for your conversations to be any more or less cumbersome than you desire them to be, and I hope you understand that I don't rely on your opinion of how cumbersome my conversations should be when formulating my own personal view of the universe. Fair enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

But common understanding suggests...

I do not accept, at face value, what I consider to be faulty or incomplete concepts simply because it is the view held by others. And, again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I wouldn't use a word outside of it's cultural associations without explaining why, and on what basis.

Elspode · 11-10-2006, 02:05 PM

This sort of thing is exactly why I try to limit my expression on the subject of religion(s) to *my* point of view. For all I know, *all* religions may be correct, given that one believes in their stringently enough.

That's why people should get their own personal Jesus, and let me get my own personal Aphrodite.

Flint · 11-10-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

This sort of thing is exactly why I try to limit my expression on the subject of religion(s) to *my* point of view.

That's all I'm doing, too. Just sharing my personal thoughts. I accept that everyone has their own view on things, as do I. When I say "I do not accept, at face value, what I consider to be faulty or incomplete concepts simply because it is the view held by others" I mean I do not accept it as far as I myself am concerned. I understand that this applies only to myself, and I have no problem accepting that other people may disagree. I do enjoy discussing the subject, and attempting to get a fuller understanding of different points-of-view, which hopefully I can benefit from.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-11-2006, 06:18 PM

Whether I bow my head and say the "Lord's Prayer" or stand erect and say the "Pledge of Allegiance", I don't expect an answer nor am I asking for anything.

Elspode · 11-12-2006, 10:45 AM

Nice "Harvey" quote, there, Flint.

Anyone ever met a puka?

Flint · 11-12-2006, 12:20 PM

My wife calls herself Pooka.

"Pooka - from old Celtic mythology - a fairy spirit in animal form - always very large. The pooka appears here and there - now and then - to this one and that one - a benign but mischievous creature - very fond of rumpots, crackpots, and how are you, Mr. Wilson?"

skysidhe · 11-12-2006, 01:34 PM

I joke around and say skyside is just a fancy way of saying 'airhead' but it is really just a name for a kind of fairy.

Wikipedia says,"The Sídhe are generally described as stunningly beautiful, though they can also be terrible and hideous."

well at least part of it is true:p

skysidhe · 11-12-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

Anyone ever met a puka?

I can't find any reference to puka. Only puka shells. Is it what flint said?

anyway...about worship. I don't think praying is worship. I think praying is asking for something.

I do on occassion wish for the saftey of someone I do not know. It's not by prayer I protect the saftey of myself and my family. I am grateful for things. Perhaps my feelings of graditude is worship?

skysidhe · 11-13-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Well, there you go then.Would you say that the All is insensate, along the lines of electricity or gravity, and you're essentially doing engineering with metaphysics? Or does it also include the sum of all consciousness in the Universe?

good question.

11-14-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I can't find any reference to puka. Only puka shells. Is it what flint said?

Everything you ever wanted to know about Puka's (not the shells) is here: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node...&lastnode_id=0

I think it might have been Bruce who first mentioned them.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-17-2006, 08:21 PM

Elspode did it.

11-10-2006, 10:23 AM	#63
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I'd have to go with the sum of all consciousness. The standard reference that I recommend on the subject of metaphysics/physics is "The Holographic Universe", by Michael Talbot. It makes a lot of sense to me, even though there are holes. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-10-2006, 02:05 PM	#66
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	This sort of thing is exactly why I try to limit my expression on the subject of religion(s) to my point of view. For all I know, all religions may be correct, given that one believes in their stringently enough. That's why people should get their own personal Jesus, and let me get my own personal Aphrodite. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-11-2006, 06:18 PM	#68
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Whether I bow my head and say the "Lord's Prayer" or stand erect and say the "Pledge of Allegiance", I don't expect an answer nor am I asking for anything. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

11-12-2006, 10:45 AM	#69
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Nice "Harvey" quote, there, Flint. Anyone ever met a puka? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-12-2006, 12:20 PM	#70
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	My wife calls herself Pooka. "Pooka - from old Celtic mythology - a fairy spirit in animal form - always very large. The pooka appears here and there - now and then - to this one and that one - a benign but mischievous creature - very fond of rumpots, crackpots, and how are you, Mr. Wilson?" __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

11-10-2006, 12:53 PM	#64
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Flint, I never suggested that worship was connected in any way with communication. My point was about more than your use of the word 'worship'. It's also about your use of the word 'God'. yes, God may mean gravity and the laws of physics and evolution; God might be a helium gas. But common understanding suggests that the word God, is primarily used to denote a powerful and conscious force, often with the aspect of creator. Using the word 'atheist', is a shortcut to say I do not believe in God or any Gods. That doesn't mean I don't believe in evolution or the laws of physics, but conversation would become very cumbersome if I had to explain the terms of reference for every word I used that was in common usage.

11-12-2006, 01:34 PM	#71
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	I joke around and say skyside is just a fancy way of saying 'airhead' but it is really just a name for a kind of fairy. Wikipedia says,"The Sídhe are generally described as stunningly beautiful, though they can also be terrible and hideous." well at least part of it is true:p

11-17-2006, 08:21 PM	#75
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Elspode did it. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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