Wego Kite Tube of Death Accident

[Ibby]

Ah, but everyone ALSO knows that car crashes are a leading cause of death in the US, but TV and magazines promote children riding in cars. If you ride a car properly it's still not safe, but you probably wont get TOO roughed up if you know what you're doing. If you crank the thing to one-ten and weave in and out of traffic in the middle of a hailstorm, you're probably gonna get yourself killed.

How is this different?

[Ollie_Lindy]

I agree.

[Ibby]

So you're saying all cars should be banned, too?

[velocityboy]

If you agree, then why should people be allowed to have cars but not kite tubes?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by jinx

The McDonalds hot coffee lady received 3rd degree burns over 6% of her body, which required debridement and skin grafts because she was served coffee that was 180-190 degrees. Since most people drink coffee at 140 or so, no one should be expected assume that they'll be disfigured if they spill. I'm glad she got a settlement.

140 degrees will also burn you, although not as severely. She held the Styrofoam(?) or paper(?) cup by squeezing it between her legs. That's stupid. I doubt if it's possible to hold a full cup there, while using both hands to do other things, without spilling it?

[Ibby]

just got this cookie:
I like my coffee extremely hot as do a lot of other people. If McDonalds starts serving it at a "safe" temperature (and what might that be?) I will drive through some other joint when I want a cup. What on earth gives anyone the right to tell McDonalds how hot it should serve its products? If they heated it to 500*F, trapped the resulting vapor in a titanium vacuum mug and labeled it "Cool, refreshing beverage. Drink quickly, or maybe bathe your privates with contents" then I would agree with an assessment of wrong-doing.
--Kevin Hemstreet (khemstre@syspac.com)

[jinx]

If you actually drank coffee at 180-190 degrees it would burn the skin off your tongue and throat - don't be an ass and claim you like it that way. Brewing and holding coffee at that temp saved McD's a few cents a pot. As soon as they were sued they dropped down to 158 degrees. The warning they print on cups now is pointless but they could have used one before they reduced the temp below the "causes disfiguring injuries" line. Just a little heads up you know.... warning: this shit is wayyy hotter than you think it is - don't balance it in your lap like you do with coffee from everywhere else.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I believe I read that this particular Mc Donald's kept their coffee hotter than the chain standard because a lot of customers picked up coffee on the way to work and bitched because it was cold when they got to work.
The chain told him to turn it down several times but every time he did the customers complained. But 158 deg will still take burn you pretty good.

I don't understand how keeping it hotter would save pennies....the other way 'round I should think.

Either way trying to hold a paper/foam cup of anything, between your legs, in a car, is dumb.

[Ibby]

Someone should appoint an impartial Council of Idiocy to weed out lawsuits involving blatantly stupid people or decisions.

[Elspode]

You could expect to be handsomely paid by major corporations should you be appointed to such an impartial position.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I believe I read that this particular Mc Donald's kept their coffee hotter than the chain standard because a lot of customers picked up coffee on the way to work and bitched because it was cold when they got to work.

I think they made this claim, but apparently their own research then showed that people do drink their coffee in the car, they don't wait. I don't have a link to said research though, so I dunno...

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I don't understand how keeping it hotter would save pennies....the other way 'round I should think.

Brewing that hot brings more flavor out of the grounds - high end coffee machines brew at higher temperatures. I read that McD's was able to use less coffee per pot, and cheaper quality grounds, and still get a decent cup of coffee if they brewed this hot. I don't know what the advantage to holding it at that temp was ( I guess its about flavor too though) - but they knew it was "unfit for human consumption" and served it up anyway.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Either way trying to hold a paper/foam cup of anything, between your legs, in a car, is dumb.

The jury agreed, believing her to be 20% at fault.


more

During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard.


McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultant's advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees.


Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185 degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above, and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into Styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing the "holding temperature" of its coffee.


Plaintiff's expert, a scholar in thermodynamics as applied to human skin burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus, if Liebecks spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn.

[Undertoad]

You can't have that signature in this conversation!

[jinx]

I order them "extra hot" sometimes, if I want to drink them at my destination.

[Ollie_Lindy]

Laughing out loud. What happened to our kite tube discussion - did we get bored and move on to hot coffee...?

[Ibby]

we drew comparisons.