Delaware Indian Lands

Dagney · 05-14-2003, 07:08 PM

I heard on the radio today, and verified in the Allentown Morning Call that the Delaware Indians want to reclaim parts of Northampton County in the Forks Township/Easton area to establish a casino.

I don't know much about how this would work, but I do know that the topic of gambling in PA is becoming a push button topic.

Any thoughts on the subject?

Dagney

xoxoxoBruce · 05-14-2003, 08:05 PM

Good idea. Lets give France back to Germany also. Oh, and all those Pacific islands back to Japan.

Undertoad · 05-14-2003, 10:03 PM

If they allow surrender and split aces, then by all means give those long-deserving natives their section of turf.

Whit · 05-15-2003, 12:13 AM

     Actually, most of these cases are based on the Indians showing treaties giving them the land and then being told to get off anyway. What's happening is that the treaties were never taken out of effect, it was just a might makes right situation. So, the treaties are still legal documents showing that they own the land. Most tribes that have pursued this have made a point of being reasonable about it. Smart move since a judge could set a precedent if he ruled one invalid. And let's face it, you can't fault the Indians for trying to make a buck.
     By the by, I kinda like the idea of giving France back to Germany. Oh yeah, Bruce, working from the previous example, China is not an island. Or were you trying not to be offensive?

05-15-2003, 05:30 AM

Kind of annoying, Indians being on our land before we got here and all.

Whit · 05-15-2003, 12:11 PM

     Yeah well, they didn't have guns or immunity to European disseises so it was an easy fix.

wolf · 05-15-2003, 01:08 PM

I was at one of those trashy roadside museums up in the Poconos a couple of years back and they said that all of the Delaware were dead (full blood, anyway).

I know there are a bunch o' Lenni Lenape still around ... I go to some of the festivals at the museum and cultural center in Allentown. (I'm going to be missing Planting Corn yet again, but hopefully will be around for Roasting Ears of Corn. Oh, and for other Native American fun in the Delaware Valley ... the Cherokee Nation PowWow is Memorial Day Weekend (all three days) at Temple University Ambler Campus. The dancing is fantastic, and there is usually at least one or two exhibition groups of professional dancers, usually from tribes we don't get to see. In past years they've had the Aztec Dancers and a Taino group (Carribean Islanders).

elSicomoro · 05-15-2003, 05:31 PM

Wolf, I suspect there are few pure Natives anymore. It'd be an interesting sociological study to do. I know my own family's stock is pretty diluted.

It's good to see the Natives taking back the land though...in fact, it's time for me to get in on this.

UT, please surrender your house within 48 hours. I will consider this repayment for Whitey's Cross Country Carnival (The Trail of Tears). Thank you.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-15-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Or were you trying not to be offensive?

Damn, thats the first time I've EVER been accused of that.
No, I don't want to give them Korea either.
I'd like to hear from the people that live in those 26 houses that the Indians (excuse me, native americans) want. I'd be pretty damn mad if they wanted mine.

Quote:

Kind of annoying, Indians being on our land before we got here and all.

Also annoying to the people THEY killed, enslaved and drove off the land as the tribes have done for thousands of years. They lived by might makes right long before the white man came.
I don't condone the broken treaties and shudder at some of the treatment but I'm not buying the "noble redman" bullshit either.

elSicomoro · 05-15-2003, 05:51 PM

Funny that we're talking about Native Americans from this region...I happened to find this while browsing online.

There were certainly some warlike tribes back in the day. But many tribes lived in peace, and only fought when necessary (e.g. against settlers).

xoxoxoBruce · 05-15-2003, 07:32 PM

They failed to mention that the Iroquois Confederation also covered New England and west almost to Michigan. All the tribes existed by the grace of the Iriquois. The Confederation met with representation from all the tribes as equals but the Iriquois were more equal than others, if you know what I mean. The only reason the Lenapes were living here is no stronger tribe wanted to. They were a farm team to supply the big league.
The Lenapes would move their hunting grounds and villages to avoid the whites because that's what they did with any stronger tribe. Might makes right and right of way.
The "misunderstanding" of the treaty was a bad scene but the point is the Iriquois sold the land out from under the Lenapes. Why, because they could and the Lenapes were only on it because they were allowed. If the Iriquois wanted it or had been on it, Penn wouldn't have got it without one hell of an army.
In New England the Mohawks would raid a town, carry of the livestock/women/children and kill the men. They couldn't understand why the whites got all pissy because that's what they always did to other tribes. They were a powerful tribe but no match for the Iriquois who kicked their ass regularly.
That was life before the white man. You had what you could take and hold.

KingOfTheWorld · 05-27-2003, 04:00 AM

We have the same problem with "Aboriginal Land" in Australia. I mean sheesh countries have been taken over for thousands of years and never has a country who is in control, begun to give it back. It makes me sick - stupid no good hippies.

Uryoces · 05-28-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
I was at one of those trashy roadside museums up in the Poconos a couple of years back and they said that all of the Delaware were dead (full blood, anyway).

Really diluted in my case.

So my great uncle Cecil was talking about all the foreclosures due to gambling at an Indian casino accross the border in Oregon, and all I can think is:Indian steal white man's land...

05-14-2003, 07:08 PM	#1
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	Delaware Indian Lands I heard on the radio today, and verified in the Allentown Morning Call that the Delaware Indians want to reclaim parts of Northampton County in the Forks Township/Easton area to establish a casino. I don't know much about how this would work, but I do know that the topic of gambling in PA is becoming a push button topic. Any thoughts on the subject? Dagney

05-14-2003, 08:05 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Good idea. Lets give France back to Germany also. Oh, and all those Pacific islands back to Japan. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-15-2003, 12:13 AM	#4
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Actually, most of these cases are based on the Indians showing treaties giving them the land and then being told to get off anyway. What's happening is that the treaties were never taken out of effect, it was just a might makes right situation. So, the treaties are still legal documents showing that they own the land. Most tribes that have pursued this have made a point of being reasonable about it. Smart move since a judge could set a precedent if he ruled one invalid. And let's face it, you can't fault the Indians for trying to make a buck.      By the by, I kinda like the idea of giving France back to Germany. Oh yeah, Bruce, working from the previous example, China is not an island. Or were you trying not to be offensive? __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

05-15-2003, 12:11 PM	#6
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Yeah well, they didn't have guns or immunity to European disseises so it was an easy fix. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

05-15-2003, 01:08 PM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I was at one of those trashy roadside museums up in the Poconos a couple of years back and they said that all of the Delaware were dead (full blood, anyway). I know there are a bunch o' Lenni Lenape still around ... I go to some of the festivals at the museum and cultural center in Allentown. (I'm going to be missing Planting Corn yet again, but hopefully will be around for Roasting Ears of Corn. Oh, and for other Native American fun in the Delaware Valley ... the Cherokee Nation PowWow is Memorial Day Weekend (all three days) at Temple University Ambler Campus. The dancing is fantastic, and there is usually at least one or two exhibition groups of professional dancers, usually from tribes we don't get to see. In past years they've had the Aztec Dancers and a Taino group (Carribean Islanders). __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

05-14-2003, 10:03 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If they allow surrender and split aces, then by all means give those long-deserving natives their section of turf.

05-15-2003, 05:30 AM	#5
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Kind of annoying, Indians being on our land before we got here and all.

05-15-2003, 05:31 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Wolf, I suspect there are few pure Natives anymore. It'd be an interesting sociological study to do. I know my own family's stock is pretty diluted. It's good to see the Natives taking back the land though...in fact, it's time for me to get in on this. UT, please surrender your house within 48 hours. I will consider this repayment for Whitey's Cross Country Carnival (The Trail of Tears). Thank you.

05-15-2003, 05:51 PM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Funny that we're talking about Native Americans from this region...I happened to find this while browsing online. There were certainly some warlike tribes back in the day. But many tribes lived in peace, and only fought when necessary (e.g. against settlers).

05-15-2003, 07:32 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	They failed to mention that the Iroquois Confederation also covered New England and west almost to Michigan. All the tribes existed by the grace of the Iriquois. The Confederation met with representation from all the tribes as equals but the Iriquois were more equal than others, if you know what I mean. The only reason the Lenapes were living here is no stronger tribe wanted to. They were a farm team to supply the big league. The Lenapes would move their hunting grounds and villages to avoid the whites because that's what they did with any stronger tribe. Might makes right and right of way. The "misunderstanding" of the treaty was a bad scene but the point is the Iriquois sold the land out from under the Lenapes. Why, because they could and the Lenapes were only on it because they were allowed. If the Iriquois wanted it or had been on it, Penn wouldn't have got it without one hell of an army. In New England the Mohawks would raid a town, carry of the livestock/women/children and kill the men. They couldn't understand why the whites got all pissy because that's what they always did to other tribes. They were a powerful tribe but no match for the Iriquois who kicked their ass regularly. That was life before the white man. You had what you could take and hold. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-27-2003, 04:00 AM	#12
KingOfTheWorld Non-Newbie Sort Join Date: May 2003 Location: Down Under! Posts: 6	We have the same problem with "Aboriginal Land" in Australia. I mean sheesh countries have been taken over for thousands of years and never has a country who is in control, begun to give it back. It makes me sick - stupid no good hippies. __________________ I declare myself King Of The World and ruler over everything and everyone in the world!

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