Bush, in Iraq, Says Troop Reduction Is Possible

piercehawkeye45 · 09-04-2007, 11:55 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/04/wo...ref=middleeast

Quote:

President Bush made a surprise eight-hour visit to Iraq on Monday, emphasizing security gains, sectarian reconciliation and the possibility of a troop withdrawal, thus embracing and pre-empting this month’s crucial Congressional hearings on his Iraq strategy.

I guess this can be taken as good for everyone but its hard to tell. I bet some people are freaking out that we will attack Iran now...

Flint · 09-04-2007, 12:03 PM

I heard that members of our Congress were visiting Iraq, and I wondered: what could they possibly "learn" from such a visit? Surely, they would be in a safe zone, surrounded by security, completely isolated from any kind of conflict. So the only information they receive would be provided via disconnected anecdotes, official briefings in conference rooms, or otherwise unverifiable sources. They could have had the same information simply e-mailed to them.

Are we supposed to believe that our congressmen are donning flak jackets and going out on patrol, to get a taste of the action on the ground?

Happy Monkey · 09-04-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Are we supposed to believe that our congressmen are donning flak jackets and going out on patrol, to get a taste of the action on the ground?

Well, the Republican ones don a flak jacket, and wander around with a massive military escort, and come home and say how safe it was for them.

Undertoad · 09-04-2007, 12:31 PM

They get a dog and pony show, which if they are smart they compare to previous dog and pony shows.

Flint · 09-04-2007, 12:36 PM

So, they are surrounded by a private army, bristling at the perimeters, and waltzed through a completely harmless area that, in preparation for their visit, has been scoured of all possible danger. Afterwards, they sit in a conference room while somebody tells them "It's all like that."

Flint · 09-04-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

They get a dog and pony show, which if they are smart they compare to previous dog and pony shows.

I guess I'm saying: They could take any other indirect source and compare it to another, previous indirect source of the same type; the analysis doesn't require their physical presence, there's no good reason for them to be there, except for showmanship. They aren't going to "see" anything.

Undertoad · 09-04-2007, 12:49 PM

You're assuming the military takes a side, politically.

Flint · 09-04-2007, 12:52 PM

You're right, let me revise that scenario. They see nothing, because it wouldn't be safe for them to see anything, and afterwards somebody tells them something which, either way, they have no way to verify. In the end, my point remains: there is no reason for them to be there. They aren't going to see anything, and all they are going to hear are unverifiable stories about the situation which they could have had e-mailed to their office.

Undertoad · 09-04-2007, 04:15 PM

Still disagree. Being there would really help figure things out. It would replace abstract concepts in your head with real live experience, even if that experience is seeing how far it is from the Baghdad airport to the center of the city.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-04-2007, 04:55 PM

I heard Bush got face time with the Prime Minister. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall, for that.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-05-2007, 03:11 PM

Voice of America.

Quote:

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki traveled to the holy city of Najaf to meet with the leader of Iraq 's Shi'ite majority, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. Sistani sponsors the prime minister's ruling United Alliance.

Mr. Maliki later told reporters he sought Sistani's advice on filling empty ministerial posts and government reform.

Mr. Maliki said Sistani pushed him to solve the political, security and economic problems that plague the country.

One of the biggest groups in the United Alliance, the movement of radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, left the government in April protesting Mr. Maliki's refusal to set a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq.

The biggest Sunni Arab bloc in parliament, the Accordance Front, also pulled out its ministers, accusing Mr. Maliki of favoritism toward Shi'ites.

It sounds like Sistani told him to buck up and do what needs to be done. But I don't see how he can without a functioning government, so maybe Sistani wants things to remain in flux.

DanaC · 09-05-2007, 06:17 PM

If they don't think they can maintain the army at current numbers without bringing in the national guard or increasing the length of terms, how would they be able to start a whole nother war?

Happy Monkey · 09-05-2007, 06:38 PM

Starting wars is easy. Send a few bombers in.

Clodfobble · 09-05-2007, 06:47 PM

And then, you can satisfy the "stay the course" contingency of the American populace by demonstrating that the soldiers are clearly needed elsewhere. It's not "cut and run," it's "cut and redeploy."

richlevy · 09-09-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I heard Bush got face time with the Prime Minister. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall, for that.

Me too. How do you say in upper class British "I'm not your bitch?".

09-04-2007, 12:03 PM	#2
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I heard that members of our Congress were visiting Iraq, and I wondered: what could they possibly "learn" from such a visit? Surely, they would be in a safe zone, surrounded by security, completely isolated from any kind of conflict. So the only information they receive would be provided via disconnected anecdotes, official briefings in conference rooms, or otherwise unverifiable sources. They could have had the same information simply e-mailed to them. Are we supposed to believe that our congressmen are donning flak jackets and going out on patrol, to get a taste of the action on the ground? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

09-04-2007, 12:36 PM	#5
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	So, they are surrounded by a private army, bristling at the perimeters, and waltzed through a completely harmless area that, in preparation for their visit, has been scoured of all possible danger. Afterwards, they sit in a conference room while somebody tells them "It's all like that." __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

09-04-2007, 12:52 PM	#8
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	You're right, let me revise that scenario. They see nothing, because it wouldn't be safe for them to see anything, and afterwards somebody tells them something which, either way, they have no way to verify. In the end, my point remains: there is no reason for them to be there. They aren't going to see anything, and all they are going to hear are unverifiable stories about the situation which they could have had e-mailed to their office. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

09-04-2007, 04:55 PM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I heard Bush got face time with the Prime Minister. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall, for that. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-05-2007, 06:38 PM	#13
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Starting wars is easy. Send a few bombers in. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-04-2007, 12:31 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	They get a dog and pony show, which if they are smart they compare to previous dog and pony shows.

09-04-2007, 12:49 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	You're assuming the military takes a side, politically.

09-04-2007, 04:15 PM	#9
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Still disagree. Being there would really help figure things out. It would replace abstract concepts in your head with real live experience, even if that experience is seeing how far it is from the Baghdad airport to the center of the city.

09-05-2007, 06:17 PM	#12
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	If they don't think they can maintain the army at current numbers without bringing in the national guard or increasing the length of terms, how would they be able to start a whole nother war?

09-05-2007, 06:47 PM	#14
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	And then, you can satisfy the "stay the course" contingency of the American populace by demonstrating that the soldiers are clearly needed elsewhere. It's not "cut and run," it's "cut and redeploy."

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