a well regulated militia

Nic Name · 07-20-2002, 07:46 PM

Quote:

WILLIAMSBURG, Virginia (AP) -- A man armed with an assault-style rifle opened fire on a helicopter landing in a residential neighborhood, thinking the chopper was carrying terrorists, police said.

Helicopter pilot John S. Sutton landed his helicopter July 13 at the home of businessman John Peters to pick him up, police said.

John Chwaszczewski, a semiretired construction worker, became alarmed when he saw the chopper swoop down over his garage, about a block from Peters' home.

"Maybe I overreacted, but I did feel this was terrorism at its utmost," Chwaszczewski said.

Chwaszczewski told police the shooting was "a natural reaction," after having watched the events of September 11.

In 1781 in his Notes on the State of Virginia, Query IX, Thomas Jefferson described the militia: "Every able-bodied freeman, between the ages of 16 and 50 is enrolled in the militia. .... In every county is a county lieutenant, who commands the whole militia of his county. .... The governor is the head of the military, as well as the civil power. The law requires every militia-man to provide himself with the arms usual in the regular service."

BrianR · 07-21-2002, 04:25 PM

And the dude needs some serious help. And his rights to firearms taken away.

There are those who have guns who shouldn't and he's proven himself to be one of them.

Natural reaction, indeed! I might have thought "mechanical difficulty" or something. But not terrorists. Last thing I would think, if at all. Normal people do not see torrorists coming out from under their beds. We lived through this once before with Sen Joe McCarthy seeing Reds under the bed.

Oh no, here we go again is my "natural reaction".

Brian

juju · 07-21-2002, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianR
Normal people do not see terrorists coming out from under their beds.

Normally this is true, except nowadays we've got the gub'mint running around on tv screaming "terrorists! terrorists!". Somehow I don't think this guy's alone.

MaggieL · 07-21-2002, 08:05 PM

Helos can be very unwlecome guests in residential neighborhoods. When I was learning to fly many moons ago, the guy who owned the airport where I was learning brought his Bell Jet Ranger back from upstate with a bullet hole in it. Some folks just don't like helos. 'Namvets especially.

I wonder if this guy just didn't take a potshot at the helo thinking nobody would know where the shot came from. The pilot didn't know the aircraft had been hit until he saw a caution light on his panel The guy's lawyer prolly told him to plead that he thought the helo was terrorists.

Apparently the helo hovered 20 feet over this guy's garage while setting up for the landing....he being inside the garage at the time. It then dropped lower over his driveway for a landing across the street The pilot has also been charged with reckless operation of aircraft, and could spend a month in jail.

vsp · 07-21-2002, 10:08 PM

> "Maybe I overreacted, but I did feel this was terrorism at its utmost," Chwaszczewski said.

"Maybe?"

After all, if I was a terrorist, the next logical place _I'd_ choose to strike would be a residential neighborhood in the middle of fucking nowhere, to strike at a retired construction worker. Screw the Pentagon and the WTC, THAT'D make a statement!

Ass.

> Chwaszczewski told police the shooting was "a natural reaction," after having watched the events of September 11.

Lashing out violently at people who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack is a very unnatural reaction, even if our government seems to have the same idea.

spinningfetus · 07-21-2002, 11:59 PM

Still think assult rifles are a good idea? And don't say this is just one guy, this is what happens when big guns and little minds team up.

elSicomoro · 07-22-2002, 07:29 AM

Given that we are a nation of 280 million people, I'd say these type of incidents are few and far between. Of course, there are some out there that would love to spin the stats their way.

MaggieL · 07-22-2002, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spinningfetus
Still think assult rifles are a good idea? And don't say this is just one guy, this is what happens when big guns and little minds team up.

Oh, absolutely the gun was at fault. Furthermore, the irresponsible buzz job was the helicopter's fault, too.

I think the helo pilot is getting off lightly here. If somebody pulled a stunt like that over my house, I'd be pissed as hell too. I also still think the whole "terrorism" angle is thought up after the fact to appeal to a jury.

Spin, you never did explain exactly what it was you were doing that got you chased out of PA that time, didja? :-) Sounds like you're still stinging from being sent home for misbehaving.

spinningfetus · 07-22-2002, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaggieL

Spin, you never did explain exactly what it was you were doing that got you chased out of PA that time, didja? :-) Sounds like you're still stinging from being sent home for misbehaving.

I was driving from a church function (not kidding) at a state park home. Last I looked that wasn't something that warrented the local redneck enforcement to get on my ass. Personally, that really has very little to do with my feelings on guns. I really don't have a problem with most guns, I have yet to see a good reason for assult rifles. They are pointless for hunting, they aren't really good for defending your home. They only thing are good for is a bunch of untrained idiots to go play soldier. Oh and killing people with body armor (like cops).

spinningfetus · 07-22-2002, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaggieL
Oh, absolutely the gun was at fault.

what part of little minds didn't you understand?

The alterative to no assult rifles would be the swiss system wherein everyone by law is required to keep them. And I don't know if that would be that great of an idea in this country.

Nic Name · 07-22-2002, 01:32 PM

Yeah, the problem is this guy with an assault rifle. Obviously, if Civil Aviation were better armed, such attacks by guys like this would be prevented. I doubt if he would have shot at a Blackhawk. The sooner we get better air to ground capabilities in Civil Aviation, the sooner lunatics like this guy will be blown off the streets and we'll all feel much safer.

MaggieL · 07-22-2002, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spinningfetus
I was driving from a church function (not kidding) at a state park home. Last I looked that wasn't something that warrented the local redneck enforcement to get on my ass.

Waitaminute..."enforcement"? Were you talking about a *cop*? Somehow that got left out of the last telling. And you said something earlier about "bumping the Beastie Boys"....c'mon, what's the real story here? A cop didn't chase you out of the state for going to the church picnic.

Quote:

I have yet to see a good reason for assult rifles. They are pointless for hunting, they aren't really good for defending your home.

I disagree.

The rifle in question was an AR-15; ten rounds of .233, autoloading. It's a decent home defense weapon, unless you live in an apartment, where penetrating a wall is a problem no matter what you're shooting. A rifle can be aimed much more accurately than a handgun.

Nonetheless, reports from Afghanistan are that the AR-15's military cousins aren't the fiercest "assault rifles" in the world, since they lack stopping power compared to rifles shooting bigger, slower rounds. The main advantage it seems to have is that the rifle and it's ammunition are much lighter (and thus easier to carry and ship) than the competition...an advantage for the logistics people.

The whole "assault-style rifle" category is a canard, one the gun prohibitionists keep hyping on because it's guaranteed to generate an emotional reaction, as I see it has in you. You say "assault rifle" and people immediately imagine someting about the size and power of a BAR and start frothing at the mouth. Would you have been as excited about this if the news story said they guy had been shooting a 12ga shotgun? That probably would have been more likely to bring down the helo at that range.

I've actually fired AR-15s. They're just little rifles, mostly made of plastic, ferchrissiakes. The projectile is tiny (only .003" more than a .22) and tries to make up for it in velocity.

I'd rather have an M-14 at home, myself.

spinningfetus · 07-23-2002, 12:13 PM

No, not cops. Rednecks, pickups and shotguns. That is what chased me. And as I explained the Beastie Boys weren't that loud cause I don't have a system. That is my point. I LOOK different. Therefore I was a target.

You know, I love when people bring up the fact that .223 is only a tiny bit bigger than .22, as if those opposed to guns weren't smart enough to figure that out. While at the same time leaving out the fact that the size of the charge is about three times the size of .22. And no it doesn't have the stopping power of an AK 47. Duh. Another secret reveled. But with a trigger assembly that can be bought at nearly any gun show or a remachined firing pin you have a fully automatic rifle. With at least twenty rounds in the clip. That isn't the point anyway, you still haven't given me a good reason for these guns to be in the hands of the everyday citizen.

07-23-2002, 12:28 PM

How about this:

Why take away the freedom?

More people die each year from car accidents than gun accidents. Why not make cars illegal? Or, maybe just make fast cars illegal, since they're more likely to be involved in a fatal accident?

How is it that people manage to miss one of the most obvious truths of this stupid and unending debate: <b>criminals will get guns no matter what the law says</b>. If they want an AR-15, they'll get it. Period.

All a law does is make it illegal for law abiding citizens to get them. Well, last time I checked, law abiding citizens weren't murdering each other. Criminals were.

Sure, make it difficult to buy an assault rifle. Require that a class be taken. That's fine. But there's really no reason to make it impossible. Why? Because those that want them to commit crime are going to get them anyway. So there's no reason to take it away from those who are not.

juju · 07-23-2002, 01:05 PM

Hey, Comma, what if we all spelled out our punctuation? Question Mark? Although you do make good points, Comma, saying the word 'Period' does not make your point more valid. Period. Oh, Comma, look! Exclamation mark! I'm right, Comma, because I spelled out my punctuation! Exclamation Mark!

07-21-2002, 04:25 PM	#2
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	I read that whole article And the dude needs some serious help. And his rights to firearms taken away. There are those who have guns who shouldn't and he's proven himself to be one of them. Natural reaction, indeed! I might have thought "mechanical difficulty" or something. But not terrorists. Last thing I would think, if at all. Normal people do not see torrorists coming out from under their beds. We lived through this once before with Sen Joe McCarthy seeing Reds under the bed. Oh no, here we go again is my "natural reaction". Brian __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

07-21-2002, 08:05 PM	#4
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	Helos can be very unwlecome guests in residential neighborhoods. When I was learning to fly many moons ago, the guy who owned the airport where I was learning brought his Bell Jet Ranger back from upstate with a bullet hole in it. Some folks just don't like helos. 'Namvets especially. I wonder if this guy just didn't take a potshot at the helo thinking nobody would know where the shot came from. The pilot didn't know the aircraft had been hit until he saw a caution light on his panel The guy's lawyer prolly told him to plead that he thought the helo was terrorists. Apparently the helo hovered 20 feet over this guy's garage while setting up for the landing....he being inside the garage at the time. It then dropped lower over his driveway for a landing across the street The pilot has also been charged with reckless operation of aircraft, and could spend a month in jail. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

07-21-2002, 11:59 PM	#6
spinningfetus Major Inhabitant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Between a rock and a hard place... Posts: 122	Still think assult rifles are a good idea? And don't say this is just one guy, this is what happens when big guns and little minds team up. __________________ Don't turn you back on the bottle, its never turned its back on you. -Boozy the Clown

07-22-2002, 07:29 AM	#7
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Given that we are a nation of 280 million people, I'd say these type of incidents are few and far between. Of course, there are some out there that would love to spin the stats their way. Last edited by elSicomoro; 07-22-2002 at 07:33 AM.

07-23-2002, 12:13 PM	#13
spinningfetus Major Inhabitant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Between a rock and a hard place... Posts: 122	No, not cops. Rednecks, pickups and shotguns. That is what chased me. And as I explained the Beastie Boys weren't that loud cause I don't have a system. That is my point. I LOOK different. Therefore I was a target. You know, I love when people bring up the fact that .223 is only a tiny bit bigger than .22, as if those opposed to guns weren't smart enough to figure that out. While at the same time leaving out the fact that the size of the charge is about three times the size of .22. And no it doesn't have the stopping power of an AK 47. Duh. Another secret reveled. But with a trigger assembly that can be bought at nearly any gun show or a remachined firing pin you have a fully automatic rifle. With at least twenty rounds in the clip. That isn't the point anyway, you still haven't given me a good reason for these guns to be in the hands of the everyday citizen. __________________ Don't turn you back on the bottle, its never turned its back on you. -Boozy the Clown

07-21-2002, 10:08 PM	#5
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	> "Maybe I overreacted, but I did feel this was terrorism at its utmost," Chwaszczewski said. "Maybe?" After all, if I was a terrorist, the next logical place _I'd_ choose to strike would be a residential neighborhood in the middle of fucking nowhere, to strike at a retired construction worker. Screw the Pentagon and the WTC, THAT'D make a statement! Ass. > Chwaszczewski told police the shooting was "a natural reaction," after having watched the events of September 11. Lashing out violently at people who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack is a very unnatural reaction, even if our government seems to have the same idea.

07-22-2002, 01:32 PM	#11
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	Yeah, the problem is this guy with an assault rifle. Obviously, if Civil Aviation were better armed, such attacks by guys like this would be prevented. I doubt if he would have shot at a Blackhawk. The sooner we get better air to ground capabilities in Civil Aviation, the sooner lunatics like this guy will be blown off the streets and we'll all feel much safer.

07-23-2002, 12:28 PM	#14
dave Guest Posts: n/a	How about this: Why take away the freedom? More people die each year from car accidents than gun accidents. Why not make cars illegal? Or, maybe just make fast cars illegal, since they're more likely to be involved in a fatal accident? How is it that people manage to miss one of the most obvious truths of this stupid and unending debate: <b>criminals will get guns no matter what the law says</b>. If they want an AR-15, they'll get it. Period. All a law does is make it illegal for law abiding citizens to get them. Well, last time I checked, law abiding citizens weren't murdering each other. Criminals were. Sure, make it difficult to buy an assault rifle. Require that a class be taken. That's fine. But there's really no reason to make it impossible. Why? Because those that want them to commit crime are going to get them anyway. So there's no reason to take it away from those who are not.

07-23-2002, 01:05 PM	#15
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Hey, Comma, what if we all spelled out our punctuation? Question Mark? Although you do make good points, Comma, saying the word 'Period' does not make your point more valid. Period. Oh, Comma, look! Exclamation mark! I'm right, Comma, because I spelled out my punctuation! Exclamation Mark!

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