oh! youre a feminist? how cute!

[wolf]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Cite?

Didn't you know? It's feminist conventional wisdom. That there is no documentable evidence of this it's because:

1) Scribes and historians and archeologists are primarily male and have a male-dominant agenda to fulfill.

2) Matriarchal societies did not have an alphabet or keep written records. The alphabet killed the Goddess, as every good feminist knows.

[Trilby]

(am obliquedly PO'd, RE: wolf, RE: citing "the alphabet that killed the Goddess" for evil purposes; i.e. her own)

And, Ahmen:


WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO STRESS INCONTINENCE, EH?

Amongst loads of other questions we nutty women have.



wolf always surprises me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by a lunar-driven animal

[Trilby]

wolf--you goddess-less traitor!

[Trilby]

[patience]

now I understand the true, spiritual meaning of the She-Wolf who once sustained Romulus and Remus so as they could become a greet nashonz; for LO:

[patience]

and am, at once, inconsolable, RE: wolfs' surrender; and obvious feminist treachery.

And, hell, didn't I write more than that?

anyhoo---"the alphabet Goddess" is worth a read; no matter what your local Romulus says.

For my part, if you are enough of "something" to be labeled that thing you are a bit nuts and have lost grasp on reality.
I just cannot think of a belief system that I adhere to. Other than atheism and Buddhism, which is really a non-belief other than the belief that we want what is best at our core and nothing more.
I say I am a Libertarian but do not believe in a completely unregulated economic and environment policy.
To be a feminist I would have to think of women as "different" than men. Sure, they function differently in many ways because of physiological differences, but we all have those. Even one man from another. That means nothing in the work place.
Everyone deserves to be paid the same for the same job with the same experience/education... that is just fair, does not make me, or anyone else, an "ist".
The only goddess I ever see is the one in my bed...

[yesman065]

Damn rkzenrage, I find myself agreeing with you too much. I find that very scary.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Where I work, women are paid the same. :p

[Phil]

its easy to recognise that there are far less women in high-powered jobs than there are men, and its fair to assume that there are women who could do those jobs as well as men, but dont get the chance or have to work much harder at getting there
Rob you nailed it for me again.

[Ibby]

My question is, how many women aren't TRYING to get to those jobs and positions due to stereotyping?

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Ibram

My question is, how many women aren't TRYING to get to those jobs and positions due to stereotyping?

Probably a few, though I suppose many women have resigned themselves to the fact and just try anyway. Kind of a "oh yeah? Watch ME buster!"

Where I work, we have seen the "Old Girls" network (as opposed to the Old Boy's network women lamented for so long.) We're supposed to have come a long way, baby, not fashioned ourselves after male corporate mentality.

But, these are tough women, tougher than I, so I don't begrudge them their accomlishments. I just wish we had kept our "kinder, gentler" ways.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Phil

its fair to assume that there are women who could do those jobs as well as men, but dont get the chance or have to work much harder at getting there

Oh bullshit. I know lots of women who are succeeding in the business world just fine. Yes, there are women out there who are capable of doing the high-powered jobs who are not doing them, just like there are additional men who could be successful in that realm if they wanted to be--but they aren't because they don't want to be working in those jobs.

Griff, for example, is a very intelligent, level-headed man with a strong air of quiet leadership, but he instead chooses to work with autistic children. Clearly he is being held back.

I was told throughout my educational years that I was refusing to live up to my potential, and instead of going to medical school I thought it would be much more fun to have a job making videogames and then drop out of career-land and have a whole slew of children. Obviously I just wasn't given the chance to get my MBA.

To assume that if they aren't there it must be because they're being held-back is condescending, and projects your values on everyone else. Which is ironic, since I'm sure if asked, you would say there is of course far more to life than being a high-powered business executive. But if other people decide the same, "it's fair to assume" they must be oppressed. Maybe women are just a lot smarter in general, and that's why they avoid the executive rat race.

[Happy Monkey]

Would you say it's fair to assume that the number of women "who could do those jobs as well as men, but dont get the chance or have to work much harder at getting there" is less than two?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Would you say it's fair to assume that the number of women "who could do those jobs as well as men, but dont get the chance or have to work much harder at getting there" is less than two?

Given the population of the US, no, I'd say it's fair to assume there are at least two women who got unfairly shafted in their legitimate hopes of being high-powered executives. Just like I'd also say it's fair to assume there are at least two women who have been promoted to high-powered executive positions when there were more skilled men who didn't get a fair chance at the job.

If you're going to defend broad statements with even broader statistical probabilities, then why bother making a point at all? I felt it was fair to assume Phil meant a relatively large number of women weren't being given chances or were being forced to work much harder for the same opportunities. If I was wrong, then forgive me, and we can all make his type of meaningless arguments together--for example, I'll say it's fair to assume that "there are [at least two] women" who would have been excellent air traffic controllers, but were denied that opportunity because they lost their eyesight in a tragic childhood accident. The air traffic controller industry is so unfair!

[student poop]

whats a feminist???

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Oh bullshit. I know lots of women who are succeeding in the business world just fine. Yes, there are women out there who are capable of doing the high-powered jobs who are not doing them, just like there are additional men who could be successful in that realm if they wanted to be--but they aren't because they don't want to be working in those jobs.

Griff, for example, is a very intelligent, level-headed man with a strong air of quiet leadership, but he instead chooses to work with autistic children. Clearly he is being held back.

I was told throughout my educational years that I was refusing to live up to my potential, and instead of going to medical school I thought it would be much more fun to have a job making videogames and then drop out of career-land and have a whole slew of children. Obviously I just wasn't given the chance to get my MBA.

To assume that if they aren't there it must be because they're being held-back is condescending, and projects your values on everyone else. Which is ironic, since I'm sure if asked, you would say there is of course far more to life than being a high-powered business executive. But if other people decide the same, "it's fair to assume" they must be oppressed. Maybe women are just a lot smarter in general, and that's why they avoid the executive rat race.

now thats what i call wishful thinking.
it is a fact that women ARE held back by the old boy network, the private mens' clubs, the businessMENS associations, etc., so dotn you fuckin dare call me condescending. I spent 8 years working for the rights of Prostitiute women and I've witnessed first hand the prejudices women face when trying to get a foot on the ladder. and if you bothered to read my previous posts, you would realise that I believe in a CHOICE for men and women: stay at home and play home-maker if thats what you want, anyhting else is oppression / suppression.


http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1983369,00.html
http://education.guardian.co.uk/gend...172256,00.html

you just sit there in your kitchen thinking about what food to prepare for the evening .... and little kittens playing with balls of wool, as a woman should.