Toy with me, baby! or How to handle a used car salesman?

SamIam · 04-09-2011, 11:54 AM

I have always been fond of Toyotas. Not only do they go forever, they go where-ever you want - the 4wd ones, anyhow.

Yesterday, I inspected a very clean used 1995 Toyota T100 with camper shell at a used car lot. They gave me an auto-check report on it which said that the vehicle had only one owner, never was in an accidence, and showed it maintenance schedule which is very good. The vehicle has 200,000 miles on it, but my past Toyota's have always gone 300,000 plus, so I figure that baby has many more adventures left in her.

Sounds good so far - yes? Except when I test drove it, the "check engine" light went on. That's a deal breaker for me unless they can show me the mechanic's diagnostic printout stating the "check engine" is for some trivial thing?

Also, the price on it is way too high - $6,495. Even without the "check engine," the price is too high.

I told the salesman that I'd be interested in negotiating for the truck if they resolved the "check engine" issue. She said the manager might just decide to send the truck off to be whole saled rather than spend any money on it.

I'm thinking that if I could get them down on price - esp if they are going to wholesale it anyway, I would strongly consider buying it IF my own mechanic took a look and discovered that the "check engine" thing can be cheaply resolved.

Do dealers ever sell to customers at whole sale prices? If not, what's a reasonable amount over whole sale for me to start negotiations?

Any thoughts, oh wise Cellar?

jimhelm · 04-09-2011, 02:02 PM

Bookout Date: 04/09/2011
Guide: NADA April 2011, EASTERN Edition.
1995 TOYOTA T100 PICKUP DX 4WD (V6)
VIN: N/A Stock No: N/A $2,800
NADA® Wholesale Value (Trade) Details
_______
Wholesale Value with Options $2,800
Mileage Adjustment (200000 miles) $ 0
_______
$2,800
Printed On: 04/09/2011

retail: $4825

lookout123 · 04-09-2011, 02:05 PM

Toyota check engine lights come on when they need an oil change. They generally reset when the oil is changed but some model years required the technician (or you) to reset it manually. That check engine light may mean nothing.

I also had one come on after my air filter cover not quite right when it was relatched. I pulled the latch back up, resealed it and everything went back to normal.

Jim can give you much more current info but the price of the used car is giong to be whatever they happen to write on the sticker, usually $3-4K over what they have in it. There are always exceptions to that, but we slapped a minumum $4000 on everything used and expected to make $1000 gross on each one.

jimhelm · 04-09-2011, 02:05 PM

A dealer will not usually sell to a stranger at wholesale. why would they? the wholesaler provides a service in getting rid of a lot of junk for the dealer. he'll make $500 or so turning most of them, but lose on some too. If you have a buddy, it might be a different story.

jimhelm · 04-09-2011, 02:06 PM

80% of check engine light alerts are for a loose gas cap, fyi.

SamIam · 04-09-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

Toyota check engine lights come on when they need an oil change. They generally reset when the oil is changed but some model years required the technician (or you) to reset it manually. That check engine light may mean nothing.

I also had one come on after my air filter cover not quite right when it was relatched. I pulled the latch back up, resealed it and everything went back to normal.

I had a Toyota Rav where the check engine light went on stayed on - oil changes, new filters - all the standard service things made no difference. Whatever it was about, the car drove just fine for 2 years until I loaned it to that asshole and he totaled it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhelm

Bookout Date: 04/09/2011
Guide: NADA April 2011, EASTERN Edition.
1995 TOYOTA T100 PICKUP DX 4WD (V6)
VIN: N/A Stock No: N/A $2,800
NADA® Wholesale Value (Trade) Details
_______
Wholesale Value with Options $2,800
Mileage Adjustment (200000 miles) $ 0
_______
$2,800
Printed On: 04/09/2011

retail: $4825

Thanks, Jim! I notice that says "Eastern Edition". Just curious. Is there a major price difference between cars sold in the Rocky Mountain region vs. a "back East" city like Philly? Will those estimates still be valid out here in Colorado?

jimhelm · 04-09-2011, 03:50 PM

probably not on a car that old. check it on kbb.com and put your zipcode in.

SamIam · 04-12-2011, 10:31 AM

OK, here is what I'm thinking I'll do re that Toy (1995 TOYOTA T100 PICKUP DX 4WD (V6), 200,000 miles with "check engine light on).

I am now dealing with Frank-the-Used-Car-Salesman. Frank has a sense of humor, at least, and I kind of like him.

Frank confided to me that people can't get financing on a car with that many miles - no kidding - especially as over-priced as they have it. He also said they'd let me take it to my own mechanic to have the "check engine" light thing diagnosed. Generous of them.

But before I do any of that, I'm taking in those NADA prices that Jim posted (thanks, Jim!). I'll offer them the NADA price of $4,825.00 MINUS the cost of my mechanic's diagnostic. If the car checks out, I like it well enough to go up to $5,000.00. But that will be my final offer.

Oh, and if I don't buy the truck, they don't get to look at the diagnostic unless they pay me for it.

Does this sound like a good strategy? I've never really negotiated with a car salesman before. In the old days, I had enough money to just go buy what I liked with a minimum of dealing back and forth.

I can't believe how hard it is to find a "clunker" in my price range. I guess Obama sent them all off to be turned into scrap.

Trilby · 04-12-2011, 10:35 AM

I

jim!

BigV · 04-12-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Frank confided to me that people can't get financing on a car with that many miles - no kidding - especially as over-priced as they have it.

why do you have to get it "financed"? duh, cause you don't have the cash, I know. I mean, do you have other credit resources? Like... your visa card?

hm. now that I think about it, you're not talking about being unable to afford it, just talking about the high price and unknown engine condition instead. nevermind.

SamIam · 04-12-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

why do you have to get it "financed"? duh, cause you don't have the cash, I know. I mean, do you have other credit resources? Like... your visa card?

hm. now that I think about it, you're not talking about being unable to afford it, just talking about the high price and unknown engine condition instead. nevermind.

I have cold, hard, cash. I mention the lack of financing because I think that gives them one more incentive to sell to me for cash at a lower price. Yes?

infinite monkey · 04-12-2011, 11:36 AM

Pertinent, from one of the best movies of all time.

REFUND? REFUND? REFUND?

Spexxvet · 04-12-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhelm

80% of check engine light alerts are for a loose gas cap, fyi.

And 85% are because of upper management. Mission Accomplished.

jimhelm · 04-12-2011, 12:16 PM

If they listed it for $6495, they probably have around $3k in it. They should take the 5k and be done with it.

SamIam · 04-12-2011, 04:27 PM

Using the research I'd done and Jim's VERY helpful information, I went in and made them an offer of $4,800.00 - $50.00 to have my mechanic do the diagnostic = $4,750.00 cash to the dealer IF it passes the diagnostic. After some to and froing, the salesman came back and told me it was my "lucky day"! LOL! If Jim is right, and I'm sure he is, the dealer is $1,750 ahead on a truck that he is lucky to get off his lot.

And I'll get the truck for $1,745 less than the original sticker price. My mechanic can check it tomorrow and, it it passes, I'll have my new truck! I'm taking a calculated risk buying such a high mileage vehicle, but I'm counting on the Toyota rep, and I don't think it will let me down.

I've been stuck out here in the middle of nowhere with no car of any kind for two years now, and it has SUCKED! Now I am very close to having wheels again! YAY! And thank you, Jim!

04-09-2011, 11:54 AM	#1
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Toy with me, baby! or How to handle a used car salesman? I have always been fond of Toyotas. Not only do they go forever, they go where-ever you want - the 4wd ones, anyhow. Yesterday, I inspected a very clean used 1995 Toyota T100 with camper shell at a used car lot. They gave me an auto-check report on it which said that the vehicle had only one owner, never was in an accidence, and showed it maintenance schedule which is very good. The vehicle has 200,000 miles on it, but my past Toyota's have always gone 300,000 plus, so I figure that baby has many more adventures left in her. Sounds good so far - yes? Except when I test drove it, the "check engine" light went on. That's a deal breaker for me unless they can show me the mechanic's diagnostic printout stating the "check engine" is for some trivial thing? Also, the price on it is way too high - $6,495. Even without the "check engine," the price is too high. I told the salesman that I'd be interested in negotiating for the truck if they resolved the "check engine" issue. She said the manager might just decide to send the truck off to be whole saled rather than spend any money on it. I'm thinking that if I could get them down on price - esp if they are going to wholesale it anyway, I would strongly consider buying it IF my own mechanic took a look and discovered that the "check engine" thing can be cheaply resolved. Do dealers ever sell to customers at whole sale prices? If not, what's a reasonable amount over whole sale for me to start negotiations? Any thoughts, oh wise Cellar? Last edited by SamIam; 04-09-2011 at 12:21 PM.

04-09-2011, 02:02 PM	#2
jimhelm a beautiful fool Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 39.939705 Posts: 4,504	Bookout Date: 04/09/2011 Guide: NADA April 2011, EASTERN Edition. 1995 TOYOTA T100 PICKUP DX 4WD (V6) VIN: N/A Stock No: N/A $2,800 NADA® Wholesale Value (Trade) Details _______ Wholesale Value with Options $2,800 Mileage Adjustment (200000 miles) $ 0 _______ $2,800 Printed On: 04/09/2011 retail: $4825 __________________ There's a Shadow just behind me. Shrouding every step I take. Making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. _tool

04-09-2011, 02:05 PM	#3
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Toyota check engine lights come on when they need an oil change. They generally reset when the oil is changed but some model years required the technician (or you) to reset it manually. That check engine light may mean nothing. I also had one come on after my air filter cover not quite right when it was relatched. I pulled the latch back up, resealed it and everything went back to normal. Jim can give you much more current info but the price of the used car is giong to be whatever they happen to write on the sticker, usually $3-4K over what they have in it. There are always exceptions to that, but we slapped a minumum $4000 on everything used and expected to make $1000 gross on each one. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

04-09-2011, 02:05 PM	#4
jimhelm a beautiful fool Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 39.939705 Posts: 4,504	A dealer will not usually sell to a stranger at wholesale. why would they? the wholesaler provides a service in getting rid of a lot of junk for the dealer. he'll make $500 or so turning most of them, but lose on some too. If you have a buddy, it might be a different story. __________________ There's a Shadow just behind me. Shrouding every step I take. Making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. _tool

04-09-2011, 02:06 PM	#5
jimhelm a beautiful fool Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 39.939705 Posts: 4,504	80% of check engine light alerts are for a loose gas cap, fyi. __________________ There's a Shadow just behind me. Shrouding every step I take. Making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. _tool

04-09-2011, 03:50 PM	#7
jimhelm a beautiful fool Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 39.939705 Posts: 4,504	probably not on a car that old. check it on kbb.com and put your zipcode in. __________________ There's a Shadow just behind me. Shrouding every step I take. Making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. _tool

04-12-2011, 10:31 AM	#8
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	OK, here is what I'm thinking I'll do re that Toy (1995 TOYOTA T100 PICKUP DX 4WD (V6), 200,000 miles with "check engine light on). I am now dealing with Frank-the-Used-Car-Salesman. Frank has a sense of humor, at least, and I kind of like him. Frank confided to me that people can't get financing on a car with that many miles - no kidding - especially as over-priced as they have it. He also said they'd let me take it to my own mechanic to have the "check engine" light thing diagnosed. Generous of them. But before I do any of that, I'm taking in those NADA prices that Jim posted (thanks, Jim!). I'll offer them the NADA price of $4,825.00 MINUS the cost of my mechanic's diagnostic. If the car checks out, I like it well enough to go up to $5,000.00. But that will be my final offer. Oh, and if I don't buy the truck, they don't get to look at the diagnostic unless they pay me for it. Does this sound like a good strategy? I've never really negotiated with a car salesman before. In the old days, I had enough money to just go buy what I liked with a minimum of dealing back and forth. I can't believe how hard it is to find a "clunker" in my price range. I guess Obama sent them all off to be turned into scrap.

04-12-2011, 10:35 AM	#9
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	I jim! __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

04-12-2011, 11:36 AM	#12
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	Pertinent, from one of the best movies of all time. REFUND? REFUND? REFUND?

04-12-2011, 12:16 PM	#14
jimhelm a beautiful fool Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 39.939705 Posts: 4,504	If they listed it for $6495, they probably have around $3k in it. They should take the 5k and be done with it. __________________ There's a Shadow just behind me. Shrouding every step I take. Making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. _tool

04-12-2011, 04:27 PM	#15
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Using the research I'd done and Jim's VERY helpful information, I went in and made them an offer of $4,800.00 - $50.00 to have my mechanic do the diagnostic = $4,750.00 cash to the dealer IF it passes the diagnostic. After some to and froing, the salesman came back and told me it was my "lucky day"! LOL! If Jim is right, and I'm sure he is, the dealer is $1,750 ahead on a truck that he is lucky to get off his lot. And I'll get the truck for $1,745 less than the original sticker price. My mechanic can check it tomorrow and, it it passes, I'll have my new truck! I'm taking a calculated risk buying such a high mileage vehicle, but I'm counting on the Toyota rep, and I don't think it will let me down. I've been stuck out here in the middle of nowhere with no car of any kind for two years now, and it has SUCKED! Now I am very close to having wheels again! YAY! And thank you, Jim!

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