Wall Street Protests

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

I've been around cops doing crowd control before. One thing I can tell you is that they don't communicate consistently with the crowd. You very well could have had some cops saying that the protestors could go on the bridge, and other cops saying they couldn't and that they would be arrested if they didn't leave. A bullhorn is very loud when you are standing right next to it, but if you are 100 feet away and surrounded by a chanting crowd, that same bullhorn will be completely unintelligible.

Good points, but the people at the front, near the bridge who begin the masses moving, as a heard of cows move, had no doubt that what they were about to do would lead to arrest. The video is pretty obvious. The people at the front lead the way.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Good points, but the people at the front, near the bridge who begin the masses moving, as a heard of cows move, had no doubt that what they were about to do would lead to arrest.

Does the video record cops telling the crowd how to move over the bridge before the crowd entered the bridge? The crowd was doing what cops originally told them to do using vague instructions. Then cops suddenly told these masses to go back. Too little too late.

Somehow TheMercenary knows that crowd was not doing what they were originally told. Why do so many (including some in the press) say they were told to cross where they did? Dogmatism says it must not be true. Where are cops giving vague instructions before the crowd enters the bridge? Without that earlier video, an honest conclusion is impossible.

A conclusion based in something from a bull horn that even an adjacent video can barely understand. But TheMercenary knows the crowd should have known. Only possible is that conclusion justified in a political agenda. An agenda that blames the people – not corrupt leaders – for a diminishing American standard of living.

These demonstrations are justified by facts. For example, the ultra rich are getting richer. Average Americans see living standards degrading. How curious. That also happened when fiscal mismanagement – the same people - also created a Great Depression in late 1920s and early 1930s.

These demonstrators are quite correct. Purpose of every business deal is for all parties to prosper. But the financial elite insist there must be a winner and a loser in every deal. Also called corruption. That is Mafioso thinking. Not how honest businesses operate. And not how businesses, that made America great, worked.

These demonstrators are quite correct. The most corrupt - ie stockbrokers - are only salesmen driven by their own self serving profits. No different than ‘made men’. People who know nothing about companies or business. Productive and patriotic businesses profit when providing a better product or service. But the most corrupt, found in mass numbers on Wall Street, deny this. Stock brokers, et al find the product a necessary evil that is irrelevant to their income. That is corruption.

These demonstrators are quite correct. Only the most corrupt or manipulated believe purpose of a business is its profits. Why is Ford profitable and GM not? Because Ford decided to ignore profits – to make better products. Product oriented thinking that once made America great. GM only cared about profits and management bonuses. The product be damned. So many of these business school educated and therefore corrupt auto executives did not even have driver’s licenses.

These demonstrators are quite correct. The most evil among us include Republicans who refused to investigate or prosecute the scumbags who created a mythical California energy crisis. Had Oklahoma not filed charges to only embarrass the Feds, then all in Enron would have gone unprosecuted. Subverted the SEC so that even Madoff existed. The largest corruption in American history - K Street - remains unprosecuted by the same people who promote that political agenda.

These demonstrators are quite correct. The purpose of a boss is to serve his employees. So that employees can then serve the customer. But so many are so evil or brainwashed by communism as to think employees must work for the boss. We all learned why this is stupid from books such as Animal Farm. Exactly why the USSR could not innovate and had to fail. Communism is what happens when socialism is corrupted by the elite and richest power brokers. When the masses work for the bosses. Or what is advocated by the most corrupt on Wall Street. And endorsed by an extremist political agenda.

These demonstrators are quite correct. Financial institutions are increasing service charges rather than institute innovations that reduce cost and labor. How many decades has the smart card existed all over the world? And still not found in America because financial institutions fear innovation. Their purpose is profits - service charges if necessary. Not better products and services.

So many are so brainwashed by financial elitists as to even believe that the purpose of a business is its profits. After all, that is the purpose of the Mafia, the communist party, and other anti-American organizations. So TheMercenary blames the people rather than the most corrupt who get rich at the expense of common Americans. These elites use Rush Limbaugh to tell our wacko extremists how to think.

Those demonstrators are quite correct. More responsible business leaders (ie Schmidt of Google) do not even make $1 million a year. But the most corrupt (cheered on by people such as TheMercenary) are elite rich with incomes increasing at 40+% annually. American workers suffer dropping incomes. A drop that started when George Jr gave tax cuts to the rich. So we blame union and other workers? Only the wacko elite blame workers.

No wonder the most wacko extremists also wanted Social Security into the stock market. The elite ultra rich would have been even richer. Wacko extremists are told what to think rather than question a corrupt leadership. Leaders who tell them (ie via Rush Limbaugh) what to think. Blame the evil workers who are quite justified in their protests.

Instead we blame demonstrators because they cross a bridge in the wrong place.

[classicman]

What, no WMD's?
You're slippin.

[ZenGum]

Hey, at least it is in paragraphs.

Back to the protests ...
What are they saying? It isn't clear - many different voices - but there are a few recurring themes:

There is too much corporate influence in politics (although I'd say it has got to the stage where calling it "influence" rather than "ownership" is debatable).

Because of this power imbalance, wealth has been and is being redistributed toward the very rich, to the great detriment of the rest of the population and to the economy itself.

The current design of our financial system gives too much reward for short-term risk taking (with other people's money) and not enough for productive innovation, which is the cause of the most recent crisis.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Because of this power imbalance, wealth has been and is being redistributed toward the very rich, to the great detriment of the rest of the population and to the economy itself.

That's racist!

er, I mean, that's Class Warfare!!

[ZenGum]

Hush, comrade.

The lower 99% got Pearl Harbored at least 30 years ago. Get with the plot.

You know, the commie plot. Ba-dum Tshh!

[Stormieweather]

Mass Arrests

Apparently, this tactic of "kettling" or "trap and detain" has been used previously by law enforcement. This involves leading or allowing or even forcing protesters into a position from which they cannot retreat and then arresting them en masse. As the PD had called for arrest buses from Rikers PRIOR to the arrests, I think this was all planned out. That's just my opinion based on videos and interviews I've seen and read.

[Spexxvet]

They're planning to expand to Philadelphia. I may just have to participate. Maybe I'll participate from a bar or something.

[DanaC]

British police have come under heavy criticism over the years for kettling. I've experienced it on a number of occasions. It's really quite scary.

[SamIam]

http://front.moveon.org/how-ny-times...st-20-minutes/

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why are they children? I think they are showing consideration, you offay mother fucking cracker. Go back to Europe, where you came from.

The example you directed at me is completely different than the case we're talking about. They are reporters. They are reporting a fact. They aren't calling anyone names.

I've read a few European newspapers. In my experience they tend to actually use offensive words when that's the fact of what was said or posted. I admire cultures that are mature enough to face facts.

Also, saying "N word" is not meaningfully different than saying "nigger" to me. It's still invoking an offensive (in the context) word.

If they wanted to be considerate they wouldn't specify which racial epithet was part of the place name. Saying something like "... a place name containing a racial epithet ..." is sufficiently descriptive while truly being removed from a word that is offensive in the first order.

I would prefer it if they'd just use the word without varnishing it.

[classicman]

I'm thinking of going to Occupy Philly tomorrow.

[TheMercenary]

I think the best thing that can happen at this point is for all of the people on Wall Street to walk off the job in protest at the protests and shut down trading on the international markets for a week and see who suffers first....

[classicman]

Here is the FB page for Philly ...
http://www.facebook.com/OccupyPhiladelphia
And an update on the situation from 30 mins ago

just walked past city hall: inside is blocked and gated with seven or so cops inside. east side is completely barricaded off with metal bar barricades. west side (fountain side) is wide open and empty of cops, though the homeless have remained camped out there. north side has three or so media trucks with satellites ready to broadcast and cameras being set up now. cop cars are circling (saw two police vans) and a couple cop cars are parked inside the barricade on the east side (where more police are walking beat). i spoke with one officer-- he said they had extra barricades to ready block the west side depending on how things went tomorrow; he was very unclear about what that meant, though he said it's of course legal for us to assemble.

[TheMercenary]

I love how this has turned into something akin to the WTO protests. Not one damm unified group but a bunch of wacko extremists (think tw) who have no clue as to why the person next to them are there. Really, Wall Street needs to turn off the lights and see who fails first...