How would you rate these actors? - Page 2

05-30-2002, 12:18 PM

My dad missed it too. That's okay. I liken it to The Shawshank Redemption and It's A Wonderful Life in that the central message of all three films is basically "the world is an amazing place and life is an amazing thing". American Beauty opened my eyes to goodness in this world that I would have missed otherwise. It's not about fucking a teenage girl or blackmailing your employer, and people that saw it as such entirely missed the point.

Undertoad · 05-30-2002, 12:35 PM

I think the transformation is the whole point. In the end (sorry, spoilers)

(spoilers begin here)

In the end he realizes that the girl isn't actually the sexual object that began his transformation. That marks the end of the transformation. He has found beauty, he has figured it out, and finally -- finally -- everything is alright.

Nic Name · 05-30-2002, 12:53 PM

MOVIECRAZED

05-30-2002, 12:56 PM

You're absolutely correct, and I agree with you. As a matter of fact, at the end, we see him sitting there, just happy to have his family, happy to be a dad... realizing the beauty... "and Janie..."

I'm not sure why so many middle-aged men missed the whole point of the movie, but there sure seem to be a lot of them.

Griff · 05-30-2002, 01:10 PM

"middle-aged men" Watch your language David.

Maybe we find the beauty self-evident and don't view family mans weaknesses as sympathetic but rather pathetic.

05-30-2002, 01:17 PM

The fact of the matter is that we have a very strong biological urge to mate. It's so deep within us that nothing will ever uproot it. It's within all species. It's there so we survive. Those that mated passed it down to their offspring and so on.

We also have a strong biological urge to mate with those we find attractive and healthy - better the chances that our offspring will turn out healthy and attractive (which will make them more prone to mate, etc).

To deny that such sexual impulses are natural is to deny one of the most important characteristics of being an animal.

Now, personally, I'm only 20 and I wouldn't nail a 16 year old. They're way too immature and incapable of supporting an adult relationship, which is what I'm looking for. But I'm not going to lie and tell you that they're not attractive, or that, sexually, I find many of them desireable. It's just part of being human, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Griff · 05-30-2002, 02:15 PM

All true. We do have urges but acknowleging Beauty as a full person, not an object, is something we should be able to understand, without approaching statutory rape. Like you said, a sixteen year old is incapable of an adult relationship, something an adult doesn't need to be testing on individuals. I thought the Spacey chacter failed in his transformation because he put the teenager in a dangerous position before realizing her humanity.

elSicomoro · 05-30-2002, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
Kevin Kline gets a high rank from me as well, A Fish Called Wanda and My Life as a House were miles apart in style and two of my favorites.

His star on the Walk of Fame in St. Louis is out in front of my old workplace. When I become world famous, I'm going to have to ask him to move his star further down the street. I don't want my star out in front of a place like Blockbuster or the Melting Pot. It's either him, Johnnie Johnson, or Red Schoendienst.

Incidentally, this year's inductees included Jimmy Connors and Ike Turner. Fortunately for Tina, his star is 2 blocks west of hers...and on the opposite side of the street.

Hubris Boy · 05-31-2002, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

Incidentally, this year's inductees included Jimmy Connors and Ike Turner.

Wow. Pistol-Whippin' Ike got a star! How 'bout that.

Not that I disagree, I'm just surprised that his nomination made it past the Perpetually Indignant without provoking a shitrain of whining and hand-wringing.

elSicomoro · 05-31-2002, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hubris Boy
Not that I disagree, I'm just surprised that his nomination made it past the Perpetually Indignant without provoking a shitrain of whining and hand-wringing.

He only slapped Tina 'cause she was unhappy.

As much of a "villain" as Ike is, it would be hard to ignore the fact that he was a huge influence in rock and roll.

IIRC, the WOF is run by a committee, which I believe consists mostly of business owners in the University City Loop. Joe Edwards, the head of Blueberry Hill Restaurant in said Loop, is the founder of the WOF, and I believe the chairman of the committee. (Some call him Saint Joe for completely revitalizing the Loop in the 70s and 80s.) From my dealings with him (and with the other business owners), most of them come across as well-meaning snobs. Fortunately, in the end, it's more about celebrating the people that either hail or have made it big in St. Louis.

And Joe can't be too indignant...Chuck Berry performs at Blueberry Hill every month...and Berry is well-known for taping women in the restroom of his former restaurant in the 80s.

Griff · 06-02-2002, 07:26 PM

Caught Spacey in K-Pax last night. His stock is going up. Not that he wasn't good in AB, just not my bag baby. My wife even gave me grief for not liking it... I couldn't be wrong, could I?

juju · 06-02-2002, 07:47 PM

Hmm... do you consider yourself a student of people? Meaning, do you constantly try to figure out what makes other people tick?

I always thought American Beauty was for these kinds of people. I could be wrong, though.

elSicomoro · 06-02-2002, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
The fact of the matter is that we have a very strong biological urge to mate. It's so deep within us that nothing will ever uproot it.

Speak for yourself.

It must've already died within me...

juju · 06-02-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

Speak for yourself. It must've already died within me...

You don't like sex?

elSicomoro · 06-02-2002, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju2112
You don't like sex?

Not that, moron.

I have no desire to reproduce.

05-30-2002, 12:18 PM	#16
dave Guest Posts: n/a	My dad missed it too. That's okay. I liken it to <b>The Shawshank Redemption</b> and <b>It's A Wonderful Life</b> in that the central message of all three films is basically "the world is an amazing place and life is an amazing thing". <b>American Beauty</b> opened my eyes to goodness in this world that I would have missed otherwise. It's not about fucking a teenage girl or blackmailing your employer, and people that saw it as such entirely missed the point.

05-30-2002, 12:53 PM	#18
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	If you like movies, you may like this site ... MOVIECRAZED

05-30-2002, 01:10 PM	#20
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	"middle-aged men" Watch your language David. Maybe we find the beauty self-evident and don't view family mans weaknesses as sympathetic but rather pathetic. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

05-30-2002, 02:15 PM	#22
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	All true. We do have urges but acknowleging Beauty as a full person, not an object, is something we should be able to understand, without approaching statutory rape. Like you said, a sixteen year old is incapable of an adult relationship, something an adult doesn't need to be testing on individuals. I thought the Spacey chacter failed in his transformation because he put the teenager in a dangerous position before realizing her humanity. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

06-02-2002, 07:26 PM	#26
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Caught Spacey in K-Pax last night. His stock is going up. Not that he wasn't good in AB, just not my bag baby. My wife even gave me grief for not liking it... I couldn't be wrong, could I? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

05-30-2002, 12:35 PM	#17
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I think the transformation is the whole point. In the end (sorry, spoilers) (spoilers begin here) In the end he realizes that the girl isn't actually the sexual object that began his transformation. That marks the end of the transformation. He has found beauty, he has figured it out, and finally -- finally -- everything is alright.

05-30-2002, 12:56 PM	#19
dave Guest Posts: n/a	You're absolutely correct, and I agree with you. As a matter of fact, at the end, we see him sitting there, just happy to have his family, happy to be a dad... realizing the beauty... "and Janie..." I'm not sure why so many middle-aged men missed the whole point of the movie, but there sure seem to be a lot of them.

05-30-2002, 01:17 PM	#21
dave Guest Posts: n/a	The fact of the matter is that we have a very strong biological urge to mate. It's so deep within us that nothing will ever uproot it. It's within all species. It's there so we survive. Those that mated passed it down to their offspring and so on. We also have a strong biological urge to mate with those we find attractive and healthy - better the chances that our offspring will turn out healthy and attractive (which will make them more prone to mate, etc). To deny that such sexual impulses are natural is to deny one of the most important characteristics of being an animal. Now, personally, I'm only 20 and I wouldn't nail a 16 year old. They're way too immature and incapable of supporting an adult relationship, which is what I'm looking for. But I'm not going to lie and tell you that they're not attractive, or that, sexually, I find many of them desireable. It's just part of being human, and there's nothing wrong with that.

06-02-2002, 07:47 PM	#27
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Hmm... do you consider yourself a student of people? Meaning, do you constantly try to figure out what makes other people tick? I always thought American Beauty was for these kinds of people. I could be wrong, though.

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