Article about priests and pedophilia - Page 2

Griff · 05-17-2002, 12:49 PM

Priests are not supposed to systematically ignore the world but rather create a bit of distance to view the world in a different context. Despite having read and enjoyed a little Ayn Rand, I've concluded that there is more to living than egoism and materialism. To me the key is choice, we can choose to be as worldly or as spiritual as we want, the more free the choice the better others can learn from it. Did the mystic down the street starve because he didn't acknowlege reality and get a job or on the other extreme did the heartless bastard up the hill die alone because of his egocentricity? Western Civilization wasn't built on fucking and foraging alone, some individuals, poets, priests, painters etc... stood apart and tried to consider mans place in the universe, I don't think they are parasites but rather symbiotes (?). To me the important thing is we don't create barriers to widely divergent lifestyles, unless they harm others. random thoughts...

tw · 05-17-2002, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
I understand that you don't buy into mystycism, prayer, self control, or individual responsibility but most priests do and can easily focus on studies and meditation to the extent that "horniness" disipates to the point of being irrevelent. Try to consider how different someones life could be if they choose to forego the constant assault of cable tv and on-line porn, instead focusing on intellectual and spiritual pursuits. Man is capable of so much more than you realize.

Why does this confuse me? Because I have forgone cable TV and porn. Never even had a VCR. I avoid fiction because there are too many realities to learn. Fundamental to my religion is a thirst for studies and meditiation of realities. Self control and individual responsibility - especially individual responsibility - have been fundamental to my life. Makes me sound equivalent to a priest. (Footnote: my uncle is a Presbyterian minister.)

And yet still those damn horns still would interfere. I look back with regret on some of women I was horny for. Logically it was wrong or rediculous. But humans cannot supress sexual desire - regardless of how superhuman they may be. Sex is an emotion that turns the best 'self controlled' people into acts of stupidity.

Some men are capable of more than we realize. They are the rarest of the rare. Is the Catholic Church to employ only those 100 rare individuals. Or does it, like all institutions, hire from the rank and file - but then impose the impossible - celibacy - on its employees? It imposes the impossible which is why most Church employees are about 50 years old and the average is fast approaching 60. The Church is so myopic and anti-reality that it even has serious recruiting problems everywhere in the world - even before the pedophile problem festered into international front page news.

A responsible Church must learn that those who best "focus on studies and meditation" are ones with sexual partners. But this is a Church dominated by a myopic and anti-social attitude that sex is only for making children. The Church was a ripe breeding grounds for pedophilia. A problem made even more ripe by how top management dealt with the problem - sweep it under the rug.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management - clearly the Pope. Rather sad considering how great a philosopher this man was in his younger days. Even the best fruit spoils - and destroys the entire crop. Pedophilia is only one symptom of a church with much larger problems all traceable to its top management. Pedophilia is but a trivial (albeit an emotionally hyped) problem by a Church that is denying so many larger problems. But then that is the nature of extreme conservatives - fear of change.

Griff · 05-18-2002, 07:01 AM

"... problems are directly traceable to top management " I actually like this Pope but we agree, the repression of sexuality among the lay people is problematic, leading directly to abortions and alienating gays. I'd say our society goes to far the other way placing way to much emphasis on serving the animal in man. There is a middle ground there somewhere to be sought by each individual. Much of the commentary, I've read comes from folks who left the church before Vatican IIs gradual effects were felt, natural acts like masturbation are no longer being criticized in the confessional, where confessionals are still used, at least by priests who are with the times. Eventually this stuff will trickle up to the hierarchy. I don't know how I reached the conclusion that you were disinterested in the spiritual, if I gave offense beyond our usual jabs, I'm sorry.

tw · 05-19-2002, 02:21 PM

This church has serious problems that require leadership. Popes (as far as I can tell) have never resigned. And yet that is exactly what this Church desperately needs. The pedophilia crisis is currently limited to America. But that will certainly expand international. Will the Church stand in its current 'no-win' stand or will it get out ahead of the crisis? To do later, the Church requires a leader at least that can read his own speeches. This Pope should resign. He is currently over-extending his welcome as the expense of the institution.

henry fitch · 06-09-2002, 09:51 PM

I think we're looking at the problem of celibacy from the wrong direction. It may or may not be true that celibacy can turn ordinary men into predators; I personally doubt it, but I'm not going to argue about it. There is a problem, however.

When someone has urges that contradict their society or their upbringing, they tend to be scared. If, for instance, they start feeling turned on by little boys, they're going to be freaked out. What do they do? Try to escape -- and the only real way to escape sexual desire that most people can think of is to swear off sex altogether. And one of the only socially "normal" ways to do that is to join the priesthood. Of course, that doesn't help, and it just puts them where they can do the most possible harm.

jaguar · 06-10-2002, 01:08 AM

I think you're dead on with that one. Possibly the choose the catholic church becase they are gay.

elSicomoro · 06-10-2002, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
This church has serious problems that require leadership. Popes (as far as I can tell) have never resigned.

There have been 6 (or 5). Gregory XII was apparently the last, in 1415. Apparently, there is disagreement on this though, as this occurred during the Great Western Schism. Celestine V in 1294 is also said to be the last one to do so.

thebecoming · 06-10-2002, 01:51 PM

"Suffer the little children, come unto me."

Surely these priests are misenturpreting. Although its not what
Jesus meant.

05-17-2002, 12:49 PM	#16
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Priests are not supposed to systematically ignore the world but rather create a bit of distance to view the world in a different context. Despite having read and enjoyed a little Ayn Rand, I've concluded that there is more to living than egoism and materialism. To me the key is choice, we can choose to be as worldly or as spiritual as we want, the more free the choice the better others can learn from it. Did the mystic down the street starve because he didn't acknowlege reality and get a job or on the other extreme did the heartless bastard up the hill die alone because of his egocentricity? Western Civilization wasn't built on fucking and foraging alone, some individuals, poets, priests, painters etc... stood apart and tried to consider mans place in the universe, I don't think they are parasites but rather symbiotes (?). To me the important thing is we don't create barriers to widely divergent lifestyles, unless they harm others. random thoughts... __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

05-18-2002, 07:01 AM	#18
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	"... problems are directly traceable to top management " I actually like this Pope but we agree, the repression of sexuality among the lay people is problematic, leading directly to abortions and alienating gays. I'd say our society goes to far the other way placing way to much emphasis on serving the animal in man. There is a middle ground there somewhere to be sought by each individual. Much of the commentary, I've read comes from folks who left the church before Vatican IIs gradual effects were felt, natural acts like masturbation are no longer being criticized in the confessional, where confessionals are still used, at least by priests who are with the times. Eventually this stuff will trickle up to the hierarchy. I don't know how I reached the conclusion that you were disinterested in the spiritual, if I gave offense beyond our usual jabs, I'm sorry. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

06-10-2002, 01:08 AM	#21
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I think you're dead on with that one. Possibly the choose the catholic church becase they are gay. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

06-10-2002, 01:51 PM	#23
thebecoming Drawn Druid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wisconsin Posts: 32	"Suffer the little children, come unto me." Surely these priests are misenturpreting. Although its not what Jesus meant. __________________ Fear profits man nothing, though you may go hide in a hole if you wish.

05-19-2002, 02:21 PM	#19
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	This church has serious problems that require leadership. Popes (as far as I can tell) have never resigned. And yet that is exactly what this Church desperately needs. The pedophilia crisis is currently limited to America. But that will certainly expand international. Will the Church stand in its current 'no-win' stand or will it get out ahead of the crisis? To do later, the Church requires a leader at least that can read his own speeches. This Pope should resign. He is currently over-extending his welcome as the expense of the institution.

06-09-2002, 09:51 PM	#20
henry fitch Dry Nurse Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23	I think we're looking at the problem of celibacy from the wrong direction. It may or may not be true that celibacy can turn ordinary men into predators; I personally doubt it, but I'm not going to argue about it. There is a problem, however. When someone has urges that contradict their society or their upbringing, they tend to be scared. If, for instance, they start feeling turned on by little boys, they're going to be freaked out. What do they do? Try to escape -- and the only real way to escape sexual desire that most people can think of is to swear off sex altogether. And one of the only socially "normal" ways to do that is to join the priesthood. Of course, that doesn't help, and it just puts them where they can do the most possible harm.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)