Girl pays price of tribal honor

[warch]

I fail to see the national interest in
this incident, however deplorable it may be.

This is a key statement here. I apologize for my anger, which, as usual, resulted in non-constructive sarcasm...(and a desire for hard liquor and cigarettes)

I think this incident reveals a global threat of injustice and violence against segregated groups- In this case two groups- women and a "lower caste". I agree with the belief that injustice/violence anywhere is a threat to justice/peace everywhere. And my interest goes beyond national to personal, because I am a member of one of the groups.

This is globalization. And this is why the UN is grinding its International Criminal Court into existence- To prosecute when nations fail to. Here Pakistan is making the motions, but probably only because the world is aware and watching. So its something.

So as a slight hijack, what do you think about the US attempt to have American peacekeepers exempt from ICC prosecution? The Bush Admin backed down a bit, the result being a temp one year exemption- Allowing the ICC to at least proceed in formation. But are American peacekeepers above law? Is the US the world's police, with its own justice? What do you think?

As the definition of war gets shifted and redefined, so do the definitions of crime, soldier, terrorism, protest, and martyr. I welcome the creation of the ICC, I think its necessary, but its influence? We'll see.

[BrianR]

Warch - I forgive you.

The ICC on the other hand. I believe it's sole function, notwithstanding the fanfare, is to prosecute the United States for alleged wrongdoing which is pretty much whatever the court says it is. There was a note in an article, but I forget where, which detailed these "crimes" to include any peacekeeping or democratic counselling. Even advocating trials for the aforementioned rapists (I DO call them that) could be seen by this kangaroo court as an international crime.

The President is correct to keep us out of this. Somewhere in the Constitution is a proviso that the Congress shall make no law which subjects the American People(tm) to rule by any other body than the US government or state government. Which also calls into question the UN Charter but that can be another thread.

Brian

[warch]

Well, we are technically re-in this. There is a 12 month Security council deferral for peacekeeping troops. I really think this legal body will be of substance and prove to be a useful peacekeeping tool. It will take time, but I think this is a pretty important step and forum- an attempt beyond the UN security council- at global justice. If you have international, global policing forces, you need international, global devices for justice on more than an ad hoc, or nation to nation basis. And for it to be just and for it to function, the cops can't be above the law. But understandably the US wants no added restrictions on their powers and military choices.

And so they dance...

(Many US citizens, charged with crimes in other countries, have been tried,convicted,and are serving sentences under foreign laws- nations with processes quite different from the closely aligned Rome Treaty and US constitution. And the process outlined in the Rome Treaty is much more protective of individual rights, than a US military tribunal.)

[Nic Name]

This just in:

Four rapists and two of the tribal council who authorized the gang rape have been sentenced to death by hanging.

Apparently they also sodomized the brother to punish him for having relations with a higher caste woman of their family.

Meanwhile, the rape victim and her family have received threats of death to themselves if the rapists are hanged.

Apparently, tent trash is a higher caste in Pakistan. Jerry Springer must be going nuts trying to book this Mastoi clan.

[jaguar]

The ICC on the other hand. I believe it's sole function, notwithstanding the fanfare, is to prosecute the United States for alleged wrongdoing which is pretty much whatever the court says it is. There was a note in an article, but I forget where, which detailed these "crimes" to include any peacekeeping or democratic counselling. Even advocating trials for the aforementioned rapists (I DO call them that) could be seen by this kangaroo court as an international crime.

How did I miss that gem of misinformation? The sole purpose of the ICC is to deal with genocide type events(check the documents for exact definitions) and only in cases where the counties own legal systems refuse to. While I agree many UN bodies become vehicles for marginal factions the ICC would have *nothing* to do with this rape or US peacekeeping operations unless solid evidence of genocide by US troops could be found.

[Nic Name]

Man Beheads Daughter Thinking She Was Raped

Mon Sep 9, 8:37 AM ET

TEHRAN (Reuters) - An Iranian man cut off his seven- year-old daughter's head after suspecting she had been raped by her uncle, the Jomhuri-ye Eslami newspaper said on Sunday.

A post-mortem, however, showed the girl was still a virgin.

"The motive behind the killing was to defend my honor, fame, and dignity," the paper quoted the father as saying.

Rape often goes unreported in Iran where the conservative society sees it as bringing shame on the victim and family.

Local people have called for the man, who has been arrested, to be hanged, but under Iran's Islamic law only the father of the victim has the right to demand the death sentence.

The paper said the father, named as Khazir, has three wives.

[jaguar]

Its like Islamic Jerry Springer

[Griff]

Oh crap! We've exported Jerry Springer to Aus? Now I know why they hate us.

[jaguar]

Better than starbucks. We're not going to forgive you for that.

[That Guy]

Is that why you won't respond to my email or post on the Cities board?

[henry fitch]

Jag - tell me again why Starbucks is bad? Sure it's overpriced, but it's not like they can drive all other coffee off the market.

[headsplice]

Why is Starbucks bad? Well, they have shoddy labor practices, they actively seek out to shut down local coffee shops by flooding the area with Starbucks, and they are a great example of cultural imperialism. If you want to know more than that, check No Logo by Naomi Klein. That should explain a little more.

[Undertoad]

1) How are their policies shittier than any other retail outlet?

2) The only local outlet around my particular area that is not Starbucks has shitty coffee, offered in styrofoam cups, does not sell fresh beans, has a crappy tile floor, uncomfortable seating, no sense of style whatsoever, and is only open until 2pm. Please I beg of you, replace this with a Starbucks.

$1.25 bad coffee I don't want to drink is NOT better than $3 latte that I love.

3) Coffee didn't start in the US, isn't grown in the US, and in Seattle is probably the farthest point in the US from where most coffee IS grown. Coffee makes for a cash crop in South America, Africa, Central America, places which really need cash crops.

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by Undertoad

3) ...and in Seattle is probably the farthest point in the US from where most coffee IS grown.

Erm...*contiguous US"...let's not forget AK and HI. :-)

[jaguar]

Why is starbucks bad?
Well to add to what headsplice said....
Yes, they are an evil company, yes; its very good case of cultural imperialism but most importantly it’s so goddamn arrogant. One thing (with some exceptions) I think I can safely say is that the vast majority of the US has nowhere near the coffee culture of Europe.

2) The only local outlet around my particular area that is not Starbucks has shitty coffee, offered in styrofoam cups, does not sell fresh beans, has a crappy tile floor, uncomfortable seating, no sense of style whatsoever, and is only open until 2pm. Please I beg of you, replace this with a Starbucks.

My point entirely! That kinda of café lifestyle (and cafe latte to sell your soul for) simply does not exist, nor does the quality of coffee. Same applies here, Melbourne’s in particular has huge immigrant populations for Europe and thus we have a fantastic inner city cafe culture (which is where I spend most of my weekends). Entire plazas, little alleys full of made on the spot fresh and delicious food and the best coffee you can dream of in truly great surroundings. Live jazz in the evenings, the streets are permanently closed and full of tables, grab a group of friends and lap it up, no better way to spend a balmy evening.
Out of curiosity I tried starbucks, yes, it’s extremely overprice to stat with but the coffee is SHIT I cannot emphasize that enough, it was the most cruddy tasting weak POS I've ever come across. Some of the street stalls make better coffee, I thought I was drinking Nescafe for a second. In short, it’s an arrogant eyesore. It doesn't seem to be doing that well, so with any luck it'll close down sooner or later. It certainly hasn't dented the cafes, I’m not the slightest bit surprised.