8/20/2003: Palestinian militant

[xoxoxoBruce]

Goethean, you musy be a palestinian. All you do is whine and attack.
If you weren't, you would start your own thread and post your own pictures.

[blue]

Saw this in the Onion once that I keep thinking of whenever I see pictures like this:

What do you think about the rash of recent suicide attacks against Israelis by Palestinian militants?

"Suicide bombing is a perfectly legitimate method to end the occupation of our homeland....no, wait a minute..that's fucking insane!"

[Undertoad]

That's right, Goat-boy; a statement can appear to be hateful and biased and yet still be correct, and correctness is the only worthwhile basis on which we should judge statements.

[warch]

So lets look at balance. Goethe-boy, help express the other bias. What are your sympathies?
Who wants to lay out rationale for this violent act? Can anyone say anything that will help me feel proud of or even sorry for Raed? I havent heard it yet.

[Serk]

Coming into this as late as I did, don't know if anyone will read what I've got to say, but I actually took the opposite meaning from the original post of the pictures...
Not saying there's a 'political agenda' by UnderToad, but I was thinking the pictures were showing just how destitute the Israeli occupation had made the Palestinians, that their only hope, the only way they see that they can make their home a better place for their children, which they appear to care for, is by blowing themselves up...
Didn't know I was supposed to be thinking 'Glad those fine upstanding Israelis are executing the dumb Palestinians' when I saw the pics... I got the opposite message out of them...

Oh well...




...back to (semi) lurking...

[goethean]

My view of the Palestinians is that they are not innocent either. In fact, I agree with with Thomas Friedman's assessment that they would have had a state 30 years ago if they had resisted non-violently rather than violently. I think that terrorism is one of the things that can happen after your people have been fucked over for a couple of generations. And, as everyone knows both the Israeli and the PLO admnistrations are to blame.

The view of people like Little Green Footballs seem kind of like: I don't care if your daddy has beat you every minute of your life up until now. If you hit him back, you're evil, and you're going down. Of course, they apply that principle only to their enemies.

What kills me is that Undertoad never responded to my criticism of Little Green Footballs. It's a site that he clearly relies on for his "facts"--which he sees as very different from opinion--(forgetting that the opinionated selection of the facts is the essence of subjectivity) as well as his pictures, and it's a hate site.

Again: Undertoad consistently paints the mideast crisis as if there is only one party at fault. There's not. And everytime you do it, I'm going to call you on it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

He didn't have to. Juju did.


aside- Welcome Blue.

[Undertoad]

LGF is not a hate site, I often mention them when I get things there, I didn't get ANYTHING for this post from there, and all this AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN misses the point that if you don't like my facts you have to

R E F U T E

them. Doesn't matter where they came from, doesn't matter who said them, doesn't matter what else they said, doesn't matter who talked about it in the comments section or why they said what they said. ALL THAT IS BULLSHIT.

Refute, with real information and real links, or go fuck yourself.

[goethean]

I didn't object to the "facts" that you are so proud of---indeed, he holds a Qu'ran in his right hand. I pointed out, and do again, that your tone is sneering, your selection of images is one-sided, your source is racist, and your perspective is skewed.

[ChrisD]

While I don't particularly "side" with one viewpoint or another in this tragic conflict, I do have to add my two bits from the lurker's chair that UT has been fairly unbiased while gothean has just been whining about the website and its operator instead of providing anything factual (or even emotionally moving, such as a picture of a carbombed PLO).

gothean, your bias is clear, and while on this website that's nothing to be ashamed of, you should be ashamed of the juvenile way in which you present it.

[Uryoces]

Geothean, I like the religion quote. I assume by your moniker you mean "Student of" Goethe.

Mr. Toad has an opinion, a bias, yes; we all do. We're all free to discuss them in this forum. Attack his veiwpoint, not the man himself. Nothing makes me want to ignore someone more than when they preface an argument with "You are", "You possess a quality I don't like", "All Americans", "You Isrealis", "You humans", or "We Elder Gods ...".

I can fully imagine that Goethe and friends would gather around with a nice glass of wine and debate for hours about the state of things political, religious, and scientific. This is no different.

Only there's much more in the way of intoxicants in our blood...

[Uryoces]

Oh, yeah, my moniker roughly translates to "Dog with tail". Uryoces sounded vaguely evil or divine, whatever. It stuck.

[quzah]

Originally posted by juju
Why do they want body parts?

Apparently I'm the only one here that remembers why. It's actually shocking, since goethean seems to be the one who remembers every single palestinian article posted here, but I'll summarize, since I am too lazy to search for it:

I believe they look for body parts, as I recall from another IOTD posted here, to hold them up in a form of martyrship / icon, showing the wrongs brought upon them by Isreal. If I recall correctly, it's similar to the dark ages where people used to dig up the saints in hopes of getting a bone or hair that was supposed to be holy and have some form of power.

It's not exactly the same, because I don't think they're doing it as a holy relic type deal, but rather an icon they can parade around to the media to show the wrong done and to add more fuel to the fire, so to speak, for their cause.

It's very odd to see.

Now you can call me a palestinian hating something or other since I'm not painting them in a bright enough picture, goethean.


Quzah.

[quzah]

Originally posted by goethean
And because #4, the moderator gaining some degree of balance, is out of the question?

Let's take a look at common media for a moment, shall we?

In the news today, what are you more likely to run across:
a) Isreal attacks random Palestinian.
b) Palestinians attack random Isrealies.
c) Isreal and Palestine sit down to tea and scones.

Here's a hint: It's not usually C.

Given popular media resources, which of A or B are you likely to see images of? Well that's fairly obvious, since you always here:

"Suicide bombers did..."

Followed a few days later by:

"In retalialtion to 'suicide bombers did...', four villiages were leveled by tanks."

The news media paints Isreal's attacks always as retaliation. Somehow implying that that is ok, because they're just getting back at the Pallies.

Now personally I don't care how they paint it. The end result will forever be the same. They will both kill eachother for all of time. It will never end.

The good news is, we'll always have new IOTDs.

Oh, and simply put the word isreal in the search box and search IOTD, and you'll see the thread I was talking about in my last post. "palestinians swarm for body parts". Now I'm really surprised that goatie doesn't remember that one. Selective memory I guess.

Quzah.

[juju]

I did vaguely remember that shortly after I posted my question, but I didn't want to say anything because I couldn't remember where I'd heard it from. Anyway, thanks, Quzah.