Revolting?

Spexxvet · 05-11-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

For the best reason of all for having guns... to defend against a tyrannical government and to overthrow it when it becomes necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsune

No offense on this comment or anything, but does anyone really buy this, anymore? The citizens of this country? Standing up against the government? People don't even protest, anymore, much less take action on anything. Tyranny would be introduced like boiling a frog and not so suddenly that would cause anyone to actually notice and take arms. Should the government ever get around to repealing the second amendment, we'll have lost so many other freedoms and be so brainwashed that we'll probably gladly hand them over when the knock comes at the door.

This exchange was from another thread.

Do you think there could or would be an armed revolt in America?
Would the revolters be criminals?
Would it be better to make change within our current system?

Perry Winkle · 05-11-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Do you think there could or would be an armed revolt in America?
Would the revolters be criminals?
Would it be better to make change within our current system?

Yes.

Some always are, even disregarding the fact that armed revolt is probably criminal in and of itself.

Of course.

TheMercenary · 05-11-2007, 08:10 AM

1. No, not under the current conditions. But under conditions where there was a total collapse of central government it might be possible. Hopefully we would revert to each state becoming the central government in the absence of a national government. So, I could see where we may have periods of anarchy which would require so form of continual personal defense.
2. No, political opportunists maybe, but I think they are one in the same.

3. Change in the current system is, has, and will be very very difficult. Until we have a strong third party rise up and become so popular as to overwhelm the current electoral process with mass elections, things will plod along as usual. A third party could also make slow in-roads to the current process but who knows.

Cloud · 05-11-2007, 08:53 AM

I don't see anything bad enough to rise to that level now, but we can't predict what happens in the future. We've had two in our country, and people still have long memories of the last one. Even Yankees.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-11-2007, 11:10 AM

Collapse of the Federal Government? Not a chance.
We've had "Constitutional Crises" screaming headlines and "Capitol Hill" so distracted they couldn't function. We've had fiscal years not funded in time and turmoil galore. But you know what? Those millions of government employees just chugged along like the vast juggernaut that it is. All those people are the government, not the relative handful of highly visible politicians.

HungLikeJesus · 05-11-2007, 11:29 AM

The Declaration of Independence addresses this in the second paragraph:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

piercehawkeye45 · 05-11-2007, 05:21 PM

If a revolt happened in America it would come from the lower class (that doesn't mean they are criminals).

It would be crushed within hours if it did happen.

jinx · 05-11-2007, 05:36 PM

Hours?
What are you basing that on?

piercehawkeye45 · 05-11-2007, 05:49 PM

Haha, it was an overexaggeration.

The point is that it wouldn't last long.

jinx · 05-11-2007, 05:50 PM

I remain unconvinced by your argument.

piercehawkeye45 · 05-11-2007, 05:54 PM

Do you really think that an armed revolution could last for over 6 months? There may be little groups that would survive but the main force would be destroyed.

The only way to fight without a slaughter would be using guerilla tactics and that will not win a revolution but only put the country under martial law.

Riots are different because police are not using weapons that can kill.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-11-2007, 06:03 PM

At what point does a riot become an insurrection? When does an insurrection become a revolution? What's the difference between a revolution and a civil war?

Griff · 05-11-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

At what point does a riot become an insurrection? When does an insurrection become a revolution? What's the difference between a revolution and a civil war?

Better ask Robert E. Lee and George III on those last two.

Guerilla conflicts are pretty easy to sustain if they have any popular support. Watch Iraq. The opposition is just waiting for us to leave. They live there, all they need to do is wait. The Feds couldn't hold the cities if they went ballistic more than one at a time. Then there is the small problem of Rednecus Americanus, lose him and you are toast.

I doubt we're headed in that direction though,.. although the stock market did just pass 1927 for irrational exuberance...

jinx · 05-11-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Do you really think that an armed revolution could last for over 6 months?

I really think the US armed forces have their hands full in country with just a small fraction of the area and population of the US. I wonder why you think their job would be so much easier here.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-11-2007, 06:40 PM

They wouldn't get me to hold up a cardboard sign that says I fuck goats and camels.

05-11-2007, 08:10 AM	#3
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	1. No, not under the current conditions. But under conditions where there was a total collapse of central government it might be possible. Hopefully we would revert to each state becoming the central government in the absence of a national government. So, I could see where we may have periods of anarchy which would require so form of continual personal defense. 2. No, political opportunists maybe, but I think they are one in the same. 3. Change in the current system is, has, and will be very very difficult. Until we have a strong third party rise up and become so popular as to overwhelm the current electoral process with mass elections, things will plod along as usual. A third party could also make slow in-roads to the current process but who knows. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

05-11-2007, 08:53 AM	#4
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	I don't see anything bad enough to rise to that level now, but we can't predict what happens in the future. We've had two in our country, and people still have long memories of the last one. Even Yankees. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

05-11-2007, 11:10 AM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Collapse of the Federal Government? Not a chance. We've had "Constitutional Crises" screaming headlines and "Capitol Hill" so distracted they couldn't function. We've had fiscal years not funded in time and turmoil galore. But you know what? Those millions of government employees just chugged along like the vast juggernaut that it is. All those people are the government, not the relative handful of highly visible politicians. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-11-2007, 11:29 AM	#6
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	The Declaration of Independence addresses this in the second paragraph: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

05-11-2007, 05:36 PM	#8
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Hours? What are you basing that on? __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

05-11-2007, 05:21 PM	#7
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	If a revolt happened in America it would come from the lower class (that doesn't mean they are criminals). It would be crushed within hours if it did happen.

05-11-2007, 05:49 PM	#9
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Haha, it was an overexaggeration. The point is that it wouldn't last long.

05-11-2007, 05:50 PM	#10
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	I remain unconvinced by your argument. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

05-11-2007, 05:54 PM	#11
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Do you really think that an armed revolution could last for over 6 months? There may be little groups that would survive but the main force would be destroyed. The only way to fight without a slaughter would be using guerilla tactics and that will not win a revolution but only put the country under martial law. Riots are different because police are not using weapons that can kill.

05-11-2007, 06:03 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	At what point does a riot become an insurrection? When does an insurrection become a revolution? What's the difference between a revolution and a civil war? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-11-2007, 06:40 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	They wouldn't get me to hold up a cardboard sign that says I fuck goats and camels. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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